Moving to the UK - the education system

[MumDownUnder16]

Hi everyone, I have recently discovered this site and there is so much information on here it looks like a great place to ask for advice. My hubby our 10 year old son (turns 11 at the start of February) and I are moving over at the end of the year, just for 6 months at this stage. We live in NZ and whilst hubby has UK passport and lived in the UK 25 years ago I have only ever been once on holiday for a couple of weeks. We loved it over there so have decided to see what it is like to live there. Short term at this stage, with a view to maybe making the move permanent if I can live through the winters.

Hubby has at least 2 job offers, with a 3rd potential offer coming. One job we have discounted due to location - up north, the other is near St Albans and the potential one which he really wants is near Southwark/Tower Bridge in London.

I know virtually nothing about schooling in the UK and it is very different from the system here in NZ...the more I read the more I freak out about whether or not we will even get our boy into a school anywhere! It just sounds so complicated and competitive and downright confusing.

That's before my other worries of is bringing up a child in the UK actually a good idea given we live in boring but safe little old NZ, how will he (or I) make friends, would we ever find somewhere safe to live where we can let him play on the street with other kids like he does here...blah blah

At this stage we have the option of living anywhere in greater London, though obviously we want to keep commuting time to a minimum if possible. Our son currently goes to a private boys school here in NZ (think that is the same as an independent school there), although the fees are half of what they appear to be in the UK.

From a financial perspective it would make life a lot easier not to have to pay 4-6 thousand pounds per term in fees but I am worried that we will not be able to get him into a local school because they are all full. And it looks like you can't choose the school you want, the local council makes the decision for you so even if we get a place it will be because the school has a bad reputation and no one wants to go there.

If that is the case and we have to pay to send him private then we will have to manage but we aren't wealthy by any means so we would probably stick out like sore thumbs.

I have tried looking for 'The Complete Idiot's Guide to UK Schooling' but such a book doesn't seem to exist so apologies for the rambling, but as you can see I really have no idea. I would love any advice that anyone can offer about how the system works, which schools/areas are to be avoided, which schools are good (fee paying or not), how to apply and any other information a newbie might need.

Thanks in advance fellow mums!

Op, we returned to the UK this summer. We did an in-year application for schools for our four kids and within a week had got places at the only schools we'd put on the form. It's not all doom and gloom. We didn't even look around the schools first, had to do it all based on the info on the Internet, including choosing a secondary school. I'm very happy with the secondary school, it's a standard academy but such a great place, was pleasantly surprised. Good luck!

Don't write off the north! You get so much more house for your money, there are areas that are absolutely beautiful, yes there are rough patches but im sure London/south has rough patches as well.
You choose three schools, list in order of preference. Yes the council choose who goes to what school but it's done fairly based on distance to home and siblings etc. Research your areas well and right move have a school checker so when you look at a property it tells you how likely you are to get into the schools nearby. Hope that helps. Sorry if I have repeated someone else so much to read I just skipped and typed!

I think if you're only coming for 6 months you don't need to worry about competitive schools! That's more of a long term issue, I think.

As I understand it the competitiveness is mostly in London. I haven't experienced it outside of London but I haven't got masses of experience.

If you want the city life / exploring museums etc, could you also consider Bristol / Cardiff / Edinburgh etc?

I suspect housing would be more like what you're expecting and that you might find it easier to find a school place.

Any suggestions for family friendly areas in London if that's what we decide to do?

The only places I have heard that are nice are Clapham and Richmond but I haven't been to either place.

Both expensive but very different. What kind of place are you looking for? I am in Richmond but there are good and bad points about it!

St Albans is a lovely place to live, whether you work there or in London. Loads of threads on her if you search the archives. I live v close if you have any questions!

In terms of schools, here is info on how to make an in-year application to schools in the county of Hertfordshire, where St. Albans is, and here is information on which schools in Hertfordshire have places in which years, as at 15 October 2015. So you'll see that a small number of primaries do have places in year 6 (which I think your DS would need). Then look on the schools inspectorate website, Ofsted, to read the inspection reports of hose schools.

There are also loads of private schools in and around St Albans, but as I think you realise, school fees are v expensive.

One thing to seriously consider if you are commuting into London is the cost of travel. An annual season ticket can be £2,000 absolute minimum. St. Albans is quite a bit more I think (and that's only a 20min train journey into London Kings Cross).

Also take a look at www.commutefrom.com, which gives you a great idea of where to live on the various train lines into London.

If you haven't already, have a browse on www.rightmove.com to get an idea of rental prices in places like St Albans or Richmond. Parts of St Albans are easily as expensive as parts of London. But both places have nice bits and less nice bits!

We just want somewhere that is safe and family friendly - as much as these are possible in a big city.

I keep being told by people who have lived or are from the UK that there is no where in London like this.

They keep saying that living in London (and the UK in general) is not a good idea for kids, that our boy will end up spending all his time indoors, that after school/weekend sports and activities are non existent or we will spend all our spare time commuting from place to place. Then as he gets older we will be constantly worrying about his safety/binge drinking etc.

Basically they are saying he will have a crappy childhood and that NZ is far superior for kids and easier for us and we are mad to even consider going there.

But I keep thinking to myself that lots of kids live in London so surely it can't be all bad and I grew up in a big city and loved having everything on my doorstep.

It sounds like it's a case of finding the right place to live..which is the million dollar question!

You know when your pregnant....and there are experts who can tell you every horror story going and seem to go out of their way to make you feel terrified of giving birth?....yeah you seem to have met a lot of those people but they are scaring you off Britain instead of childbirth. Quite annoyed. This isn't a third world country. Yes there is binge drinking in areas....crime...in areas....but no after school clubs?! No hope?! Really?! If you are that worried stay in NZ. I'm very proud of our little island. Can't read anymore on this post it's making me really cross

I'm certainly not worried MrsB or scared off...otherwise we wouldn't be coming over. If you re-read my posts I have nothing but praise for Britain. I love your country and I'm not even British!

My experience while I was there (albeit for only a couple of weeks) was so different to what British friends in particular had described about their life there...and to be honest your UK media also has a lot to answer for.

But please don't assume I hold these opinions...we want to and plan to come over, I just though that this site might be a good place to get some accurate, honest information and suggestions in terms of schooling from other mums.

Moving country is very exciting but very scary all at the same time so thanks to all the mums who have very kindly taken time to respond with helpful advice and suggestions. Any information is like gold for a soon to be new arrival!

Thanks for the links Wigeon...the booklet in particular is really helpful in terms of explaining the system and will be bedtime reading tonight for sure!

I agree with Needsmoresleep

Primaries in our area (Hackney) may have places in year 5 and 6 and people who want to move out for Out-of-London Secondaries do so.

Sorry, OP, your friends are talking rubbish. London is great for kids of all ages (I have teens who grew up here)

Glad to help . Just to add though, the booklet about the system in Hertfordshire only applies to Hertfordshire. Other counties (or London boroughs, which is the equivalent in London) may well have different deadlines and different procedures for in-year admissions, so if you decide that actually you want to live in Clapham, say, you definitely need to read what the local authority there says about in-year. But the Hertfordshire one is obviously good for Hertfordshire, and gives you a general idea about what happens elsewhere too.

Any questions, do keep asking!

Some have mentioned that parents move their kids to prepare for secondary school so our boy may not have trouble getting a place. Can anyone tell me in terms of secondary schools, why families move out of London for these and are private secondary schools preferred over secondary state schools?

I'm starting to wonder if we might need to consider secondary schooling when we decide where to live and which job to take, just in case we decide to stay long term!

I keep being told by people who have lived or are from the UK that there is no where in London like this. They keep saying that living in London (and the UK in general) is not a good idea for kids, that our boy will end up spending all his time indoors, that after school/weekend sports and activities are non existent or we will spend all our spare time commuting from place to place. Then as he gets older we will be constantly worrying about his safety/binge drinking etc.

Er, this is rubbish. Richmond is certainly a particularly safe area but there are absolutely tons of places in London where children are being brought up happily and safely. I have friends who live in all kinds of areas of London and none of their children seem to be having awful childhoods (ages of children ranging from under 1 to teenage). Most schools have lots of after-school clubs and activities, often free and run by the school. DD could choose from yoga, cross-country running, football, rugby, basketball, two types of dance, karate and netball (and that's just the school sports clubs - there are masses of others run outside school). As it happens, that's not her thing so she does science club, art club, piano, violin, choir and orchestra at school. She also benefits from attending a free Saturday morning music school and does Stagecoach (this and the piano/violin are the only things I pay for). She has also done, in the past, French (which I paid for) and tons of other free activities before school, after school and in her lunch hour including musical theatre, tap, ballet and masses of other stuff. This isn't a particularly wealthy school or a particularly middle class one, though we live in a relatively expensive area.

Your people who lived in the UK are a self-selecting set of people - they are people who chose to leave. Obviously you don't choose to leave a place you like living in so they are bound to think that NZ is in some way better. However, most people in the UK do in fact remain here and have perfectly nice lives.

I'm amused by what you're being told about London! It's a big city, so of course it's not all rosy and yes some bits are edgy, but it feels pretty okay to me. If you go to Herts, or similar I'm guessing that will feel safe (I have no idea!), but you won't have London on your doorstep in quite the same way.

Just to reassure you, but we're in Hackney. My son's 11 - he gets the bus by himself to his secondary school. He goes out with his mates at the weekends - often to the park. They cycle, plays basketball, skateboards, play table tennis. There's loads of organised sports if that's what your child wants to do. Actually there all manner of activities for kids and a fair amount's free too. I've got several friends with teenagers who are motivated, streetwise, engaged kids. They're normal teens, but from all I've seen lots of London kids are also hugely motivated. There's a real ethos in the schools that doing well is a cool thing. Lots depends on what you want for your child. Do you want them to meet children from all backgrounds, cultures, communities? If you do, then stick with inner London.

You could think of Hackney. Google 'London Fields' and 'Broadway Market', also 'De Beauvoir'. Lots of young families round there and the park's lovely. You're really close to the city (10 mins on a bus down to Liverpool Street or there's the overground which takes you south too. Great primaries and some really strong secondaries too. It's not cheap these days though.

So great to hear you all countering what we have been told. I had hoped to hear the kinds of comments you are all making and it makes me feel even more comfortable with our decision to come over.

As I said I loved what I saw of Britain and my husband loved living in London (albeit well before kids) so it just didn't gel with what friends were telling me and after our trip we became determined to come over in spite of some of their negative comments.

I know all of us will find things a bit daunting at first but I am really hoping we settle and make the right decisions with where to live/schooling etc. It certainly sounds like our boy may have a chance at some great opportunities and experiences!

You could live somewhere like Putney which is lovely, very green, next to the river and near lots of parks and easily get a place at a really good primary school as there are always spaces in Year 6. I wouldn't worry too much about secondary spaces if you are not planning on staying too long.

The thing about lack of activities is definitely absolute rubbish. I live in a town just outside London (and commute into London for work), and there are masses and masses of things for children to get involved in - sports, music, artistic stuff. My primary school child does swimming (local authority pool and lessons), recorder club (school), Brownies (outside school), singing club (school) and has a huge choice of other potential activities.

If you live in the south east, you do spend some time travelling around, and the roads can be very busy. If you work in London, a commute of an hour plus (door to door) is very common, even if you also live in London. But the upside of that is that there is masses going on.

Re worries that children spend all their time indoors: well, the weather in winter does mean that you are not exactly likely to want to be outside a lot. And the reason my children don't play out on the street is because we live in a built up area with traffic and it's not safe because of that (and they are only 4 and 7). But they spend plenty of time outside - even in Hertfordshire, right by London, we actually have lots of parks, woods, nature reserves and open spaces to be in.

Re whether private secondary schools are preferred over state secondary - only 7% of British children go to private school (that's primary plus secondary), so actually it's a small minority (although that rises to 18% of over 16s). The fees are simply unaffordable for most - a ballpark figure is £12,000 a year per pupil. This means that it's just not an option for even professional couples (DH a teacher, I am a relatively senior civil servant). However, round me, there are some very very decent state secondaries, and in fact some of them (the ones which are semi-selective) have comparable results to some of the private schools nearby. I will be happy for my children to go state.

State secondaries can vary quite a lot though, and different counties have different systems. Some have completely comprehensive schools (anyone can go to any school), some have the "11 plus" exam, which determines if you can go to a selective school, some (like Herts) have a some schools which are comprehensive and some which are semi-selective.

London is/a good city for teenagers. Like any city you need to be aware but as all kids get free travel you don't need to spend hours transporting hem around like you might in the country.
By the end of primary school there are often free places and I will give your DS a chance to make friends and integrate into UK life. My DS2 had a girl turn up in his year from NZ at th end of year 6 .She slotted straight into the class.
The local education authority does have to find you a school place but it doesn't have to be your closest school or the best school. Just the nearest with space. So if you are looking at staying long term pick an area with lots of good schools to up your chance of getting a good one.
If you are only staying 6 months I would go central if London based and imerse yourselves in London.

Also Stoke Newington

can any explain the 11+ results and what the hell they mean

The 11+ exam is a catch all phrase for a whole bunch of different exams which various state secondary schools across England do to fully or partially select their pupils. So there is no such thing as 'the 11+ results' across the country and one area's results (eg Hertfordshire, with a small number of semi selective state secondaries) are not comparable with another area's (eg Kent, which has some selective state schools). You might be thinking of the Key Stage 2 SATS, which pupils do at the end of Primary school, and which are standard across the country (like GCSEs. Sort of).

OP your friends are probably being negative for all sorts of reasons, not all of them altruistic. They are in the most part, very fond of you I should think and don't want you to leave, people also envy others who have the guts to get up and move away to pursue a life more interesting or perhaps just different. It reflects on them in some way if they are maybe unhappy with aspects of their lives.

I've spent quite a lot of time in New Zealand and Australia and it is very different in some ways to the UK as there is a huge emphasis on being outdoors which is great, but we do have wonderful countryside here along with loads of culture, fabulous cities and lots of amazing work opportunities. Of course Europe is just on the doorstep too, one thing I really missed about the antipodes is that it is so far away from everywhere else.

Glad to see that you are being open-minded to all opinions though .