School, maths sets, Year 4

[Anastasie]

I'm a bit worried about ds being put in the lowest set apparently for Maths.

There are three classes and they have been mixed up into three sets and apparently he is in the lowest one.

The thing is, he is really good at maths.

They had a times tables worksheet the other week and he finished miles before anyone else, literally most people were about half way through when he had done it and the whole class applauded which made him really happy. Happened again last week, he had finished before anyone else despite not knowing the method till just before they did it.

He is v shy and gets a lot out of being good at stuff.
So I don't get why they have suddenly stuck him in the lowest group.

He has been in the top set all of this term so far and is coping well with the homework. It makes no sense to downgrade him - or does it?

Perhaps they think he needs to revise things? Can any teachers make head or tail of this? I'd have thought middle set would be more apt if he was struggling, which tbh he doesn't seem to be.

Btw he wasn't rushing through and getting them wrong, they were 100% correct.

Other thing is the new sets are based partly on the step they achieved at the end of Y3 and his was written as 'lower than expected' but at the parent meeting his teacher said that was a mistake and corrected it to 'higher than expected', as that was an error.

So maybe they still have lower on the school computer or something?

You should have a discuss with teacher first, to find out what teacher think.

Thank you, I have asked them to phone me to make sure I haven't got the wrong end of the stick!

The thing is all the children do the same curriculum anyway, just at different paces, but I can't understand why the lowest set and not middle at least. Maybe the class is populated with genius children.!

Maths sets are really tricky. He might be struggling with one concept (say fractions) at the moment, and he will be moved again when he gets that bit. I know my DS had issues because his reading wasn't good and many of the maths questions are written problems (Tom has £126 and Sue has £218. How much have they got altogether - if you would ask him what's 126 + 218 he would get the answer right away, but as it's in written form he doesn't quite get it) hence being in a lower set for a while. He is now in the higher set in year 5. My advice is talk to the teacher and try to find out what he is weaker at and work on that.

Oh that makes sense. Yes he isn't confident with division, he says he can't do it when he actually can but doesn't quite grasp the concept. He tends to overcomplicate things, think it must be more difficult than that, iyswim. Then you say no that's the answer and he's like, Oh!

Maybe he will go back up when he has got division then.

Thank you for explaining that.

or maybe if he benefits from being really good at something at getting the admiration of others for it, they think it could be useful for him to be top of a lower set for a while, rather than middling in a higher one? (though bottom set doesn't sound quite the right place for that, maybe the middle one, if he really is good at it). Or maybe the top set is full of children who don't need much explanation for things - I've known children who are good at maths, once it's explained to them, but who don't naturally see it themselves or make connections or work out what to do before they're shown, and they can get quite demoralised in a class that is full of those sorts of children. The explanations don't always come, and the child can feel stupid for needing to ask questions about things that are apparently obvious to others. It doesn't mean they aren't quite capable of doing the work once they've been shown.

If he isn't confident, are you sure he's correct in that it's the lowest set. they don't say "top bottom middle" necessarily, more "Mr X, Mrs Y and Mrs Z.s sets"

Led to confusion in dd1's year where one friend was convinced that she was top for most of the year, and I had a few embarrassing conversations with her dm who thought it a pity dd1 wasn't in the top with her dd, but never mind not all could be as good at maths as her dd.

It's also possible that he has a great memory for tables, and that will stand him in good stead, but he isn't good at applying it. So he can do 4 x 5 =20 no problem. But when asked "I have 4 egg boxes with 5 eggs in each how many do I have?" he hasn't a clue, or sits down to draw 4 egg boxes and counts them.

They will do a similar curriculum, but the top set will move much faster. For example I know ds went from learning about fractions to equivalent fractions to adding and subtracting fractions in less than a fortnight (year 3). The lowest set did identifying fractions to equivalent fractions using drawings in the same length of time.
For the child who takes a little longer to understand the concepts it does help to raise their confidence because they move on only when the previous section is totally clear in their mind.

I'm not totally sure, no - I hope the teacher will be able to clear that up!

Also I see what you mean about both putting a method into practice and getting his head around the concepts fully.

The way they do times tables is odd, it's just a series of numbers - the answers if you like - rather than learning it by rote, like a little rhyme - once one is one, two ones are two, etc.

It means he has to pause and think for a moment before he knows the answer - going through the table instead of just knowing it.

I disagree with the method and we try and practise the other way when we get a moment.

I digress; I will see what the teacher says and take it from there. He could have a bit of a misunderstanding of what's going on so it is best to make sure.

Thank you for all your help

Ok, have spoken to the teacher.

She said there are three sets and he is still in the top set, but he has been moved down to the lower group within the top set as they did a test last week and he struggled with that, however he can go back up within the group as well.

It's just to give him some extra help, and she said he shouldn't be worrying about it at all as he is doing really well.

Talk about a confusing system! But that means I can tell him he is still doing fine. Also means she is on top of things which is reassuring for me.

Thanks for your thoughts on this, I appreciate them.