Choosing a Primary School

[SpaghettiMeatballs]

Would love some non biased views on primary preference. We have seen three schools we'd realistically get a place at for DD and DS thereafter. Discounted one. Of the remaining two I have to decide between:

School 1/ The school everyone raves about. Ofstead outstanding and fantastic results. It's a large school and I did think the kids were a bit crammed in and the infants and juniors are always separate to the point there are different buildings, no joint assembly etc. Seemed a bit of a shame to me. We would have to drive to the school but in all honesty I'd be driving to any school 3 days a week as I'll be on my way to the station for work.

A lot of children of my friends go to this school and DD has friends there already. DH works abroad and I know I'd have a great support network of friends if I needed a bit of support with balancing childcare when he's away.

2/ The village school. It's very close to the house. Ofstead say good and results are nearly as good as school 1. This school felt more inclusive with the adaptations they have made for disabled students and the 'interventions' process they have for children struggling and those that need more challenging work. It's a small school. It had a lovely feel and the classrooms are massive. The infants and juniors are mixed and they even do learning activities together sometimes. We don't know anyone who goes here apart from passing acquaintances so I'd have to build relationships all over again if I wanted to do a few swops with drop offs etc and DD would have to make new friends. I really liked the head here and I know my DCs would warm to her. The before school hours aren't as extensive as school 1 which will be inconvenient when DH is away.

I'd really value views from people who have made similar choices. Head says school 1 and heart says school 2. How do I choose?! Asking friends is no good. They all say school 1 because their children go there!

Gosh, that is very long. Sorry!

School 1:

• Everyone raves about it -> discount, it matters what is right for you and your family, not what everyone else thinks. Unless you think you have exactly the same attitudes towards school as all your friends do?!
• Ofsted outstanding -> How recent? Is it still the same head? Are the things celebrated in the report things that matter to you?
• Great results -> doesn't really say much. Did you look at the value-added score? But even if that is high: What often happens is the following. Parent is ambitious for child's education -> Parent chooses 'outstanding' school -> Parent will ensure that child gets good results, and if school doesn't deliver, that just means that child will get tutored etc. -> school results look fantastic but are not down to school at all! In other words, a school with a great reputation doesn't need to be a good school at all and will still get great results, as the parents who send their kids there will make sure that they get the results.
• your friends' children go there -> if you believe that your friends have the same values and attitudes as you have, and were looking for the same things in a school as you are, and did their homework properly, and are in similar circumstances; then yes, there is nothing wrong with learning from other people's experiences.

(However, did these friends have the option of school 2 at all?)

• DD has friends there already -> Can be a good and very valuable thing, but a fresh start can be a good thing too. Depends a bit on the child, and on the nature of those friendships.
• support network -> So these 'friends' won't support you if you send your child to the other school? Or is it more a matter of logistics, school runs etc.? If the latter, then a new network is what you are looking to build, and seeing as school 2 is so much closer, you will need less logistical help anyway.

School 2:

• Very close: Massive, massive plus point. Consider playdates etc. not just regular school run. Being able to have impromptu friends over on the way home from school. Logistically so much less complicated.
• Ofsted: How recent? What does the report say as to 'why is this school not yet outstanding?' Are the points raised here things that matter to you?
• Interventions for struggling and able students: May, or may not, be mostly propaganda.
• small: has pros and cons, lots of threads on that to be found. At the end of the day, it's up to your preferences. I personally like small schools but that is neither here nor there!
• lovely feel, liked the head -> that's your answer there.
• don't know anyone: but you'd need less support anyway due to closeness. And might meet lovely new friends, who live really close by too, making life so much easier.
• before school hours more limited -> do the before school hours at the other school actually give you the flexibility you are looking for? Or are they of the 'sign up for a term' type?

Thank you y1questions. That is all very helpful.

Friends will help but logistically they won't be able to drop their own DCs and mine to two separate schools and equally I wouldn't be able to return the favour for the same reason. All the parents I know at school 1 work so there is a culture of helping each other out a bit and the before school club opens 15 minutes early which could be really handy when DH is away. DH will drop DD when he is in the UK so it's not an issue all the time.

School 1 is only 5 minutes drive away. TBH it is just about walkable but not for little legs in all weathers. I'm not overly worried about missing out on play dates etc due to distance as we aren't far.

In terms of friends I don't think DD will struggle to make new friends at school 2. She knows and likes a lot of kids going to school 1 but she is 4 this month and as one of the older ones at pre-school has seemed to be very confident with forging relationships. DS is far more sensitive and in a Spring birthday but as he is a second he will know children at either school when he starts.

Ofstead for school 2 was late 2013. They said that there wasn't consistently good teaching in all classes but I happen to know from a reliable source that teacher has been performance managed and has since left which could explain that. They also said that work wasn't challenging enough for the most able pupils and that a small proportion of students aren't confident with basic numeracy which holds them back with more challenging parts of the maths curriculum. I don't know what to make of that. The head started 6 months before the report was written.

Ofstead for school 1 was late 2012. They say everything is marvellous. Of the friends that chose school 1 two would have been close enough to school 2 and I suspect they will have placed great importance on the Ofstead. I'm not sure how consistent Ofstead is as an organisation so whilst I am influenced by the report I don't want it to be the only measure iyswim?

It's very interesting to read your perspective on what makes a school have consistently good results. Funnily enough a friend has given up primary teaching to simply tutor whilst her DCs are so young and is getting lots of work.....!

The very good news is I'd be happy for my DCs to go to either school which is a luxury position really.

Oh, re distance I am massively attracted to DS being able to toddle round to school 2 without a pushchair to meet his big sister even if I'm not too worried about play dates so yes, distance is a bit plus.

Think about how your dc will find the school, are they both the type thriving on a more regimented schedule or would they be happier in a more family type environment for instance. Your heart says school 2, is that because you feel it would be a better match?

The difference between a good and an outstanding school is often not that big, check what is missing for an outstanding in school 2, might be something not relevant to you. Good results can mean good intake rather than good school, so beware of that. High average achievement means nothing if the environment is not ideal for your child in particular.

They both sound good options, but I'd go for the bigger school because there's more choice of friendships there - smaller schools can be great, but less kids means it's more of a risk that they won't find friends they click with. Also bigger schools means it's more likely there will be a pool of children working at the same ability level as your child - whatever their ability, from low to high it's always a plus to have other kids to work alongside I think. Go and visit both - I'd bet you'll know just from instinct which is best for you.

Good point about the bigger school, smee, friendships can be tricky in a small school. Big schools can also have more sports and music on offer.

Really interesting perspectives. Thank you.

I went to a small school so in someways I'm attracted to a small school because it is familiar but it makes a lot of sense re friendship groups and peers working at the same level in a larger school.

I honestly do believe DD would be happy in either. She is a happy go lucky child who mixes easily. DS is far more sensitive and struggled a bit with settling into nursery. I can't work out whether a large or small school would suit him best.

We've visited both but liked them both. One for all the 'sensible' reasons and one because we just really liked it!

We are very tempted to put larger school first at the moment as the 'head' choice. It's the one we may or may not get in to based on distance We live so close to the second school that we are all but guaranteed a place there and would be happy to be allocated there.

Look at what extra curricular activities are on offer too. A bigger school may mean a wider range of opportunities.

Actually Micksy that is something I need to check out. The small school does it's own after school club so presumably DD can attend a club and then go to after school club. The larger school has an external provider so I need to check if that will still be possible.

We initially wanted the larger (2 form entry), OFTSED outstanding primary school but didn't get in. Ds1 went to the second choice, smaller school (1 form entry) which has had variable OFSTED's but all of which have praised the caring ethos of the school. The last OFSTED wasn't great but the school has taken swift action to rectify problems (most of which was down to an NQT who has since dropped out of teaching). The OFSTED report was in the same year as other stats showed the school was in the top three in our LEA for added value (i.e. how good it is at lifting under-preforming kids and that's not to do with 'pushy' parents in our case but more with the school's ethos of including parents and working out how to engage kids)

DH is now chair of the governors and since seeing OFSTED from the inside, I have even less confidence in their reports than I did before. They work on percentages and take no account of statistical significance, so one problem family can completely bugger up a school's standing.

I don't think a bigger school necessarily means more chance of friends - I went to a 3 form entry school and most of my friends were from my own class, unless our mothers were friends already.

I initially thought school size would mean there were fewer clubs etc but ds's school has a film club, football, karate, maths club all after school and all of which you can go to and then be taken to the after-school club.

From what you've written I would say go for school 2.

Thank you issystark. It's good to know that your DS is still able to go to after school clubs on the days you work and then go on to after school club from there.

So much to think about but I'm finding all these completely objective perspectives really helpful and interesting.

I'm not sure what to make of Ofstead at all having read about all the staff that they got rid of recently. Makes you wonder about the quality and consistency of their assessments.

Always look at the KS2 classrooms and what's on offer for them, don't just think of the little 4you you send in, he will be in year 3 in no time and changing schools can be a pain.