I need some advice from experienced Primary School Governors please.

[Millymollymama]

My school is losing governors! Within the last 18 months we recruited people to join the Governing Body who have specific skills, as we are now expected to do. However, they have all found they are lacking in sufficient time to be effective Governors and one by one they are leaving, giving no notice. We now have 4 vacancies. The Local Authority has left their Governor vacancy unfilled for over 18 months! The parent Governor vacancy had one applicant last time and now this person has left. Lots of the Governors are employed in senior roles or run their own businesses, so they have the skills but no time.

We are just about to start a rapid and, hopefully, effective recruitment drive from within the local community. Does anyone have any tips for recruiting people who have the right skills and might actually stay for a while? Have you gone to the Chamber of Commerce, the U3A or other associations to try and find the right people? We think an Ofsted inspection might be on the horizon and our progress and results are good and very much improved.

"The school gate mums vote for each other so I wouldn't stand a chance"

This is key IMO. I'm a governor, or rather I'm technically not anymore, I'm a director of a multi-academy trust. But there's no way I would have stood for election as a parent governor, not a chance. I keep myself to myself at the school gates and don't have reams of mates to call on.

I became a governor by being directly approached by the Chair of Governors, discussed the role during which discussion he completely misled me about how much time would be involved and ended up being appointed as a community governor, even though I'm also a parent.

Our most recent recruitment involved existing governors discussing people they knew (parents) who would be good, and approaching them directly in the same way. We recently got two interested, engaged people this way, who would never have volunteered and risked a popularity contest.

"I think we need a "bums on seats model" now."

I disagree with this, by the way. We had several "bums on seats" who did very little other than turn up to two or three FGB meetings a year, said nothing, and contributed virtually nothing other than voting when required. A small group of people were doing all the work. That has improved now. I know it's easier said than done, but there's no point having people there who aren't going to be engaged and contribute.

The "bums on seats model" was a tongue in cheek remark!

Our parent governor was the Chairman, who has just resigned and never went near the parents at the gate due to work commitments. Only two other governors have children of school age and the do not attend this school. I would prefer more than one parent Governor and I guess we could change this at our next meeting but the school has had a poor track record of parents wanting to be governors. I do not live anywhere near the school and several other governors do not either. We will definitely look to community based clubs and groups to find suitable people though.

The year group visits were started so governors could get to know the school and the staff. Lots of schools do this around here. We do receive and read everything in advance. Personally I think 2 GB meetings in the autumn term are more efficient due to the housekeeping that needs to be done. The Heads report contains detailed reporting of progress and attainment with a commentary on each element. We then send back questions to the Head who then responds to the questions. In a special school it might be that you do not need this. I am not convinced we need the detail we get. It has lots of other things in it too. I gather plenty of schools in our LA use this model of HT report but we do need to cull it!

I think you will find a GB development plan has to have more than "recruit and retain" governors , lougle! What is in yours? Do you have one and have you done any self evaluation and used this to write your development plan? The Head's report also comments, in detail, on the school's development plan. Do you have this commentary, lougle? It is expected in our LA.

You have a number of problems so you need to find solutions to match those problems:

I think the working governors find it very difficult to come into school during the day. So hold it in the evening or on a Saturday morning.

The school has had a poor track record of parents wanting to be governors. So ask people directly; people you know and are not necessarily high flying career folks. There are plenty of people who can do ideas and turning out and you don't have to be a fantastic career person to be a very good governor. I see your comments about the PTA but has anybody actually asked specific people? Perhaps some from there might be tempted at the end of their tenure to move to a governor role? They already volunteer and that's half the battle - getting people in who are motivated.

Also, we would be wary of parents who are over-invested in their child! You may well be excluding some of the most motivated people. With good, tight management Mrs X who thinks the provision for gifted and talented children like her Tarquin could be a great governor.

We are a village school So parish council, church, local scout groups, Lions, Rotary etc etc can all be approached. Put posters up in the library. Put them up in the GP surgery and any clinics. Get them up in the playgroup or nursery because if you start getting the message out early because the more times people see a message the more they think about it. Is there a parish newsletter? Can you get an article in that?

I believe in training people Great! What training is available? Do you have open meetings so people can see what is involved?

We are also in an area of the country where there are lots of dual income families and people commuting to London. They have so little time. Ok, so what can you do about this? When and where are meetings held? Are the agenda and minutes published and circulated in a timely way? Can people join the meeting remotely (by Skype, Facetime, Google hangout or another video conferencing method)?

It has been me, as a lone voice, calling for people with more time! It was getting pretty obvious people were struggling with commuting, self-employment and high flying jobs, not to mention family time! So change the way you do things as per above.

The others felt skills, ready made, and people like them was the best way forward and wanted to follow the new formula for school governing bodies. You need diversity, especially if the current "people like them" way is not working! The new formula is good and very useful but you do need a critical mass of people too just to get stuff done and share the workload. Most people are capable of being a governor with the right support and time. If the current way is not working it needs to change but doesn't need to be totally scrapped and thrown out the window. It is not an either or situation.

Moving on up. Governors need to attend far more than meetings! Of course ours are in the evenings. However visits to monitor the SDP, SeN, Performance Management, the idea of the coffee morning etc are during the day. The school had massive problems with a couple of parents apparently and they hijacked meetings with their issues. We welcome interested people but not ones that can only talk about their child and not be aware of collective responsibility and the needs of all children in the school. I think this is why they reconstituted with only one parent. I have said I disagree with this. I think some of the PTA parents would be great but they love the PTA.

We offer now training to new governors via me and another very experienced governor. Our LA has a superb induction programme and excellent courses on important topics. But,Governors must find the time to do them! Some do not. Totally agree about GP surgery, nursery parents and parish magazine. We are going to do that. We invite interested people to observe meetings if they are interested.

Yes, we have everything well in advance. Attendance at meetings has not been a problem with the outgoing governors. It is the reasons they are giving for leaving. Would we want to be conducting meetings with several governors on Skype ? Not sure. Disjointed and difficult to manage I think. I don't think we need to totally scrap the skill set model but I do think we need more core governors. Currently it is 2 of us. That is hard. Really hard. Also, the Head and staff governor will not want a meeting away from school. I don't think they like evening meetings anyway and we keep moving them earlier to accommodate them. I have never met a Head who likes hanging around until 7 pm to start a meeting! I have seen schools where governors come to meetings straight from the station and struggle to make 7.30! Trying to get a balance is difficult.

I'm not sure where I have said that governors just need to attend meetings If you are referring to my first point that was a direct quote from the bit about the prospective governor's coffee morning. Although now you mention it not all governors need to come in during the day and I don't think it's that radical to suggest an informal gathering to attract people be held at a similar time to when most of the subsequent meetings will occur - so a coffee morning might not be as good an idea as evening drinks for example.

People can only hijack meetings if you let them. Hence the need for good, tight management. I'm also not sure prejudging people is terribly helpful - how can you know someone will champion a single issue until they start? I can be a pain in the bum when I need to for my children but that doesn't mean I don't take my responsibilities to the wider community seriously and execute them well.

I'm not sure what else to say. People make suggestions and you bat them back as non-issues while saying they are the reason people are leaving. Surely that indicates a problem? These things don't exist in isolation and people talk so a reason for leaving is a key thing to look at when considering how to attract people.

Hope it works out :)

We don't have a formal development plan as a governing body -we can evidence the development of the GB through training records, FGB minutes, etc.

Of course we need to know about achievement and attainment in a special school . Perhaps more so than MS -we have to be given (anonymised) progress data for each individual child, because you can't just group our children by age. Our HT does a fantastic 'traffic light' system whereby we get a paper with a list of children (no names!), their target level, actual level and whether they fall into red (below expectation) amber (at expectation) or green (above expectation) for progress. We then get given an analysis by the HT, breaking down progress by type of SN, sex, year group, etc., any exceptions (e.g. known medical issue affected progress) and any trend that has been identified and the steps planned to address this. No visit required.

I agree with Flowery -bums on seats are not what you need. I also agree that the Chair needs to control the agenda. If a parent or any other governor starts focusing too much on one issue, the Chair draws the GB back to the agenda and moves on. If necessary, a quiet word about it after the meeting.

The development and training governor should be identifying weaknesses in skill mix and inviting people to take training. "The LA states that we need three people to be trained in safer recruitment. We currently only have X. Could I have two volunteers for SR training, please?"

In our GB we have some people with time and other people that possess crucial skills but can't commit more time than they give to FGB and committee meetings. We accept that because they contribute to the GB -it doesn't have to be all equal.

Monitoring the SDP - why can't the HT give a report on progress towards the goals? Have it as an agenda item.

I'm not saying you're doing it wrong, but it sounds like you're using a lot of man hours to get things done.

Our GB was rated outstanding at last OFSTED and we certainly don't have such onerous monitoring systems as you do.

I totally agree with others, that there is no way I would have gone to election as a governor. I can't stand that. I'm on my second term now, but I was approached by an ex-governor and asked to apply. I would never have volunteered myself for a popularity contest!

In our GB we have some people with time and other people that possess crucial skills but can't commit more time than they give to FGB and committee meetings. We accept that because they contribute to the GB -it doesn't have to be all equal.

This is an excellent point. If all contributions are positive and as a whole they achieve the goals (with nobody feeling put upon or taken for granted etc etc) then that is a success. Sometimes you need expertise in the form of advice but the actual practical application can be done by someone else without that expertise like me so long as there is good oversight.

I have batted very little back! I agree with a great deal of what has been suggested! It has been very useful. I thought I was having a discussion so I am sorry if anyone thinks I have been dismissive. In fact it is interesting to see how different governing bodies work. If I had not extended the discussion, then lots of ideas would not have been forthcoming. However, not every suggestion will suit us, but a lot is food for thought.

There was advice given on when and where meetings are held. I merely suggested not all the work of a GB is meetings.

I am a fairly new governor to this school. I do not pre judge any parent, but I am reporting what several other governors are saying. Yes, of course the chairman should stop inappropriate comments and questions. Completely agree. However the views of some existing governors have made this issue a big one! It is one that needs to be shelved. I totally agree.

We have a governor attached to every strand of the school development plan and they have meetings with the lead teacher on the strand to check on progress. The HT gives a progress check too. I am aware it doubles up! I think we do need to look at how we work. It is a lot more intense than my previous (long ago) school. I am sure we can find a successful way through this. Thank you all for your insight and advice.

Can you give an example of what a strand would be? We tend to have 3 things each year on our SIP. They tend to be quite big things, so, for example, 'designing and embedding the new National Curriculum'. Now, within that there are lots of areas we can gather evidence from, but they are specifically addressed at every FGB and of course, if appropriate, committees.

I wonder if your school is trying to improve too much, too soon? It's better to make change in a sustainable way, with a step-wise fashion because otherwise people get completely jaded and burnt out.

Similarly with the HT performance management -I'd much rather the targets relate to the already established work of the school, than trying to dream up fancy targets that don't relate to school life. So having a target relating to the introduction of the new NC does two jobs: it ensures accountability for the HT's role in managing t the transition, but it also recognises the HT's vital role in ensuring that the school continued to be progressive despite the change.

The school, until very recently, has under achieved. The previous Ofsted was good but there were cracks being papered over. The Head has brought about improvement but it has been done over 4 years. So not that rapid. We are seeing the fruits now of all the hard work.

Our 4 Strands in the SDP are: 1) Improving the Achievement of Pupils, 2) The Quality of Teaching, 3) Behaviour and Safety, 4) Leadership and Management.

As an example - Strand 4:
Improve consistency of quality first teaching across the school
Empower curriculum co-ordinators
Implementation of new curriculum

Strand 1 and 2 have more elements but we do double up on work quite a lot. For example we have "Narrowing the Pupil Premium Gap" under Strand 1 but we also have a PP Governor - me! We too have reports and evidence at full GB and Teaching and Learning Committee. Some of the evidence is gathered by Governors via visits though and written up using a template for governor reports and then circulated.

I am trained to do Performance Management but when I joined they had their PM Governors in place. I don't know what targets they set, because they are not shared with other Governors, but I would fully expect them to be pertinent to the school with a degree of challenge.

OK, so it sounds like you know what's wrong -you're all scrambling over each other to gather evidence and it's not coordinated.

That example is great, but why aren't you the governor allocated to that strand if you're PP governor? Or, alternatively, why did nobody say at your FGB this month 'why doesn't x take the PP role as s/he is covering strand 1 of the SIP?'

Perhaps you need to chat with the Chair to share the observations. You need to work smarter, not harder. I think you know that.

I am allocated to strand 1. It is just that I see the teacher responsible for strand 1 and the Head who is the PP lead, hence the doubling up of reports. However everything is not sufficiently organised in advance of the FGB meeting so people are asked to volunteer at the meeting. I took these roles on at my first meeting and had never seen the SDP before. I know maths is a focus for 15/16 and I am numeracy governor so will combine these two roles! Hopefully we will sort out a smarter way of working and attract governors too.

I honestly think email is your friend here. How about, instead of visiting, 3 weeks before your FGB, you email the lead for strand 1 and ask for an update on progress in that area (split into the sub-sections if necessary). Same for HT. It will save them time, you don't have to go in, then you can ask the clerk to send out those reports with the agenda. When it gets to that moment in the FGB, you lead by example. "As you will have seen from the report provided by X, progress is being made towards the target and the next priority is.....". "As reported by HT, the PP gap has narrowed by x%, thanks to y intervention, continuing the trend from the last 2 years. However, it has been noted that the gap is narrowing faster for girls than boys, so x intervention is being targeted at boys in receipt of PP and further feedback will be provided at the spring FGB."

Leading by example may be the only way.

I was a governor in a Primary and I work at a University. Do you have a local Uni? A lot of Universities have schemes to get people involved in the local community and they often have a lot of academic and admin staff with relevant skills (eg. IT, HR, Finance). They are also usually flexible employers who might give people time off for meetings or at least let them leave early on occasion. Maybe try to find their volunteering or social responsibility dept?
Also, to help retention, think about the timing of your meetings. I found getting to a 4pm meeting really difficult, but the teachers on the GB would have found a 6pm start unreasonable (more realistic for someone with a full time job). Good luck.

Have you looked at the inspiring the fututure website? They are a source of interest for recruiting governors. Is there a lea association for retired staff ie teachers etc? Do it website?

OP 'lack of time' is really the only acceptable thing to say when you need to leave.

Can you give exit interviews?

The role can be rewarding, but also hugely frustrating as you are accountable but at the same time limited in knowledge with an interpretation between operational and strategic that all governors might not agree with.

Language can be not-inclusive. Personalities can clash. New Governors might be uncomfortable at the relationship between the Chair and the HT. Lack of bonding as a board (i.e. the odd drink after meeting, coffee, celebration of SATS etc.) can mean Governors feel isolated.

Is there a good mentoring system in place? If a new Governor comes on board and finds the role tricky is there someone they can confide in?

Is the clerk efficient at ensuring all Governors have the information to do their jobs?