What happens when a primary age kid is excluded permanently?

[TheCountessofFitzdotterel]

....and they are already at the school that has the best chance of meeting their needs?

My 8yo ds is very close to being excluded and I want to get my head round what our options will be in case the worst happens.

Without going into details (it's very long and complicated) he is already at the school with enhanced mainstream provision. So if he can't cope there, he's not going to last 5 minutes somewhere else.

There don't seem to be any PRUs for primary age in this or the neighbouring LEA. Does provision take any other form or would our only option be home ed?

Thanks.

the LA has a responsibility to educate, so in theory they will have to provide a tutor. What you actually get in practice may be very little.

In our city there is a school for kids with behavioural issues, not sure if it is a PRU though.

I would phone and ask LA what the options are.

Where I used to work, we did have primary PRUs but they were for support whilst the child was in mainstream education. We did not put our excluded children into them. We also had off site provision to "calm" children down through play strategies so they could integrate back into school. Have you considered pushing for a place in a special school if his needs are complex and cannot be met in mainstream education? Usually we recognised that some children just could not manage in a maistream school and took action to get the statement in place for KS2. Have you got the maximum TA time allocated to him that you can possibly get? What other support is he getting?

You can home ed if you want to. What is the SENCO suggesting should happen next? They really should be talking to you about what they can do to prevent exclusion, not just threaten it. I would talk to your LA and Parent Partnership or equivalent to see what the options are in your area. You will not be the first parent in this position. If, at age 8, it appears he cannot be educated in mainstream, then a special school seems like the next step. They will have a much higher pupil/student ratio and have better training to meet the needs of your DS.

Does he have a statement or an EHCP? In our LA a child if already in a school with and enhanced resource would move along the path of supported provision so maybe to a special school (if learning was also a problem) maybe to a school specialising in their own particular difficulties so ASD specific or EBD special school or maybe to an independent school.
If the school isn't meeting his needs then an exclusion will help you get a placement that is more appropriate.

Thank you all.
We are having a meeting on Wednesday to fill in the forms for the EHCP, but he already has a one-to-one for the time he is in school (he's currently on half days but not coping with that), so I'm not sure what else the school can put in place. They have a soft room where he spends a lot of time - he is in the classroom for very little time now, well under 20% of his time in school.

It has all happened since January. He is very bright. We moved house in July 2014 and he had a stonkingly good first term in the new school (top of class behaviour ladder as well as shining academically). He doesn't struggle socially and is popular with other kids. He is emotionally very hypersensitive and can't cope with competition, criticism, anything bad happening to anyone else - he's very over-empathetic, and he ends up wanting to die and trying to self-harm. Yesterday he attacked and hurt a member of staff, which was a massive escalation.

CAMHS don't think there's a problem. He saw a paediatrician for autism assessment last week but they don't think it's that and we have an appointment with a clinical psychologist scheduled but there's a 6 month wait.

I have not considered special schools but have just been googling the ones in our area - thanks. They all seem to be out in the countryside and I don't drive- would the LEA have to provide transport?

We are also in the process of arranging an appointment with a private clinical psychologist, given the 6 month wait in the NHS.

Yes the LEA would provide transport, ours get taxis.

Ideally he would be moved into a special education provision, rather than mainstream+SEN. Smaller class sizes, higher staff ratios, less children on the playground and at dinner times, more time to focus on personal targets, relaxation techniques etc. Howevet this depends on his statement and what's available in your area.

Your LEA would send him out of area (with the provided transport) but I imagine a new school + a commute would be hard for someone who already wasn't coping well.

Also we have children to come into special education but are able to return to mainstream either at some point during their primary education or for year 7. So please don't think this is a closed door. How old is your DS?

He'll be 9 in December.
It's all happened so fast, part of me thinks it must be just a phase and if only he can sit it out without getting expelled he will turn a corner at some point. Our best guess as to what is going on is that it's to do with brain development and the gap between his intellectual and emotional maturity, but that's really just a guess, and I've been expecting him to turn a corner ever since it started really but it's just been getting worse.

I'm currently laughing hollowly at our local county council's website info about their educational psychology service, given how long our school have been asking for help for him.

Quite a lot of special school children do have quite a long commute though because there are far fewer special schools! I feel very sorry for your DS, OP. This is very distressing.

Has the school been able to accelerate him to see the school's Educational Psychologist? The EP should be working with the SENCO and class teacher to develop a strategy to help him in class. Would his teacher be able to recognise when he is about to have a major problem? What support does he have in the classroom with a dedicated TA?

How did he cope in school beforehand? Did he go to school from 5? It seems to me that there has been something that he has found really traumatic happen for him to make such a turnaround.
FWIW dd has autism and this "He doesn't struggle socially and is popular with other kids. He is emotionally very hypersensitive and can't cope with competition, criticism, anything bad happening to anyone else - he's very over-empathetic," describes her to a tee.
I would be asking for a referral to a specialist diagnostic service for autism tbh details of the nearest one to you you can get from the NAS rather than relying on CAMHS to spot anything remotely atypical.

The school are having another go at getting the ed psych. They've been asking for help since the early spring but I'm hoping the new urgency due to the violent behaviour might get him pushed further up the list.

The paediatrician he saw last week wasn't through CAMHS, it was at the hospital via a referral from his GP. That paediatrician has referred him on to a clinical psychologist, but it won't be for another 6 months.

He was mostly fine at his old school. It was a very little, quiet, relaxed village school, though the downside was that there was no expertise or experience of anything out of the ordinary. He had one or two incidents over the course of his 3 years there (once he curled up into a ball on the playing field and wouldn't come in when the bell rang - so the same kind of thing, as these days he spends large amounts of time curled up in a ball!) but basically he went to school and enjoyed the work and I never even had to collect him early. So the new school, being much bigger and noisier, was a shock to his system, but they have put a lot of things in place for him like being able to eat his lunch in the EMS room, to mitigate it.
Nothing we know of happened to spark off the not being able to cope - it started small and grew and grew.

Re the teacher recognising when he's about to have a problem, she can up to a point, but he is very unpredictable and the mood swings are very fast. We all live on eggshells tbh, trying to minimise the meltdowns, but it takes such a little thing to spark one off that it's very hard. (eg dh chipped a plate recently....)

Oh so it sounds like he has always had difficulties at school bubbling under the surface but the small calm quiet environment enabled him to function on the surface anyway.
Away from the environment he knew and where he had worked out his own coping strategies he's gone into free fall. The first term in his new school he would be paralysed by stress and anxiety that's why he was top of behaviour charts. He can't keep it in any longer and now it's all coming out.
If your GP will make a referral ask about a referral to a specialist diagnostic service such as the Elizabeth Newson Centre Your poor boy can't wait six months to see a psychologist he needs seeing now.

Do you think the GP would refer for that though? Given that he referred me to the paediatrician whose view was 'hmm, not really but I can refer you to a clinical psych if you want'. I don't have a stake in whether or not ds has autism (ie I don't have a view either way) but won't he just think I'm a crazy woman who's convinced my son has autism when the experts say he hasn't?

Usually if a child has been violent they do go to the top of the list. The school pays for the EP service and they determine who sees the EP. Plead for him to be seen as the earliest opportunity. This might help to keep him in school. However, it does sound like a special school, with all the attributes mentioned above, would be best at the moment, sooner rather than later. We (me as an LA Officer, our EPs, specialist teaching staff and the Headteachers) used to move heaven and earth to get our more challenging children into special schools very quickly, even if an extra place had to be created. To be fair we had very few children where it was so vital to move quickly, however, there are cases when it just needs to happen. I wish you luck.

I must have misunderstood how it works because I was under the impression the school had been trying to get hold of the EP and not been able to. They said they would try to make sure he saw someone before the meeting on Wednesday. So if they don't, I will try to find out why not and try to put some pressure on.

I tutor for the LA. Tend to tutor for about 9 months and then the child has support from me (and others) to transition into a behavioural/special school. I tend to see the child every day for 1.5 - 2 hours

You are entitled to a second opinion, our paed would refer all children who he couldn't determine a diagnosis of ASD to a specialist diagnostic service because that is al they see and so have the knowledge and experience to see things he might have missed. The vast majority of these children would get an autism diagnosis.
Autism isn't diagnosed by a paediatrician but by a multi disciplinary team so ideally your son needs to see a speech therapist, an occupational therapist, a child psychologist, an ed psych maybe even a psychiatrist and they should all make assessments and then meet together with a paediatrician to discuss their own findings. The paediatrician should be the facilitator rather than the sole person making an assessment tbh.
With a specialist service you get the team of people who have the knowledge needed to make an accurate assessment and diagnosis. You would have nothing to lose by asking and your son is in severe distress and needs seeing as soon as is humanly possible.

Our school now have a couple of ELSA trained TAs to help children with behavioural issues. Any chance your LA has access to similar trained TAs to come in and work with your son? ELSA

I happened to see this on new posts, and can't help re schooling, but the anxiety you describe rang a bell in relation to something I read recently about pathological demand avoidance, which is associated with autism. Possibly worth looking at some of the Recommended techniques to help him?

OP whats he like at home? Do you see the child school speak of? Or is he calm? Start keeping a behaviour diary to see if anything comes up.

Re the specialist autism diagnostic service - sounds worth a try then.

ELSA - I don't know; I think there might be someone. His current one-to-one doesn't have any special training but she 'gets' him as much as anyone does.

Pathological demand avoidance - I've looked at this (I've looked at a lot of things!) and I didn't find many bells ringing.

Re home and school - yes, absolutely he's the same at home and school. We find ourselves nodding a lot when teachers tell us about things that have happened.

Tbh an ELSA trained TA would be like sticking a plaster on a great big gaping wound. This child needs proper assessment and professional support not a TA who has probably attended a day or two's training by the LA if you are lucky.

The school should have started the EHCP process off earlier - if the LA agrees to assess (and I don't think they have much choice if ds is only in school half days) then the EP will have to see him as part of the assessment process since there is a strict timetable and they have to decide within 16 weeks of the date of receipt of the assessment request whether they are going to issue an EHCP.

You really need to push on with that - I'm a bit concerned that the school is delaying whilst setting up a meeting when by law the process can be started by a simple letter requesting it. You can start the process yourself, and I suggest you do so immediately - have a look at the SOS SEN and IPSEA websites for precedents.

The current situation with your ds in school part time is already unlawful as he is entitled to full time education. If he can't cope with full days in school then he should be getting home tuition in the afternoons.

If he is permanently excluded then as a matter of law he has to be provided with full time education from the 6th day. If that doesn't happen, really push the local authority and contact SOS SEN about getting a letter sent threatening legal proceedings to enforce your son's rights.

Sadly I know about this because ds1 was permanently excluded .

The LEA should provide full-time education within 6 working days of a permanent school. This is most likely to be a PRU but they may try to get away with one hours tuition a day at home.

In our area they aim to arrange a "managed move" to a new mainstream primary within six weeks. No extra support will be given automatically. The new HT can end the managed move at any time and child returns to the PRU.

If the managed move fails the cycle begins again.

My advice is to apply for an EHCP immediately - model letter on IPSEA website to make sure you can get appropriate support and placement for your son but be aware it can take many months.

On a brighter note ds1 is now thriving as a result of placement first at a primary EBD school (which had a lot of pupils with ASD) and currently at a specialist secondary. We were devastated by his permanent exclusion but it did get him the support he needed. I wish there had been a kinder route but despite the original school asking for help none was forthcoming until the exclusions started.

One person to contact at is the LEA's exclusion officer - her job is to prevent exclusions as well as find placements for those who are excluded - and they will be able to tell you precisely what happens in your area as provision does vary.