Help with appeal (in year application)

[oznog]

Hello- I'd love some help and advice on my reception place appeal. We are moving to a new area and have not been able to gain a place at any of the 3 local primary schools. (school one: full no places to offer. school 2:full infant class size limit, school 3: unwilling to admit out of year group). Anyhow we are questioning how the school can be full. it has a PAN of 45 for reception and employs 2 teachers and 2 TA's for the classes. Year 1 and Year 2 are both 2 form entry with 60 pupils. When I looked around the school I was told there are places in year 1 currently and it could be an option to try and transfer my child there next year (as a year one student). I am still awaiting council info on net capacity and number on roll currently. But I am struggling with how they can currently have a 45 intake (assuming this is a class of 23 and 22) and not be able to take one more. I would also like any general advice on preparing my appeal statement.
Basically the reasons for wanting this school are

• its walkable (anything the council allocates will be over 2 miles away)
• we are new to the area (so have missed out on normal admissions round) but importantly need a local community school to get involved with our new area/make friends/meet people at the school gate etc

-follow the ethos of the school and think it is the best fit to what our child is currently experiencing

• we very much want our children to go to a non faith based school (potentially the one allocated over 2 miles away would be non faith but the other 2 in walking distance (and our catchment is faith)
• can any points/leverage be made for the fact that the school is our 2nd nearest school but we are not in the catchment for it?! this has alot to play as children without siblings already in school and not in catchment are further down oversubsctiption criteria-- basically i'm asking can a case be made that we are closer than some children admitted/higher on waiting list but penalized due to being in a different catchement (to a faith school we do not want)

Could they have combined yr/y1 or fs/yr classes which make them multiples of 30? I'm not sure any of your points carry much weight in themselves, sorry. Where are you on the waiting list and when is dc 5?

he is 5 now- he is a summer born that we fought with current council to start at CSA. They do have a nursery but it is separate class space. Reception is two interconnected rooms and the year1 and year 2 classes each have their own rooms (4) on other side of building. I think we are 3rd on waiting list but will again struggle as children in catchment willl have priority and we are not despite this being our 2nd closest school (0.3 miles away)

I'm struggling to understand the school's arrangement. Schools don't normally admit in Y1 so if they have 45 in Reception you would normally expect 45 in Y1 and Y2. It would make sense if there are 3 Y1/2 classes each with 30 pupils, in which case your appeal would be heard under infant class size rules. However, whatever the class arrangement the school is full because it has admitted 45 to Reception and that is PAN. You can argue that they won't have any problems with an additional child but they are technically full.

If this is an infant class size case none of your points will help. If it is not infant class size:

• The fact that it is walkable is not really relevant

• Being new to the area and wanting a local school is unlikely to carry much weight

• The ethos of the school may help a little

• Wanting to go to a non-faith school is unlikely to carry much weight

• The fact that this is your second nearest school but you are not in catchment won't help you at all

• Being closer to the school than some children admitted won't make any difference, nor will the fact that you are closer than some children who are higher on the waiting list. Basically that is arguing for the school to have different admission criteria

To strengthen your appeal see if there is anything this school offers that is missing from the allocated school and which is particularly relevant to your son. For example, if he likes music and this school has a lot more musical activities available than the allocated school that is worth mentioning.

it is not infant class size appeal. What can help my appeal? It seems we are penalised for moving really and all spaces being taken up. Other than arguing that they could take more as there is space in year one. There is a gymnastics basis to PE which my son has attended preschool gymnastics, and enjoyed and showed as much aptitude as a 4 year old can. He is a sensitive articulate 5 year old and this school has a responsive, and child led system of valuing each child and their learning..

If your information is correct, the school appears to have classes of 60 in year 1 and year 2 but only 45 spread across 2 classes in reception. That could be possible if the school has a PAN of 45 but has for two years accepted pupils over PAN (that is they took 60 instead of 45).This may be because the school had the classroom capacity to do that for the 2 years (in effect a spare classroom for 30 pupils) but now has no further capacity.

Having said that it is not usually how these things happen. Usually once the school starts admitting 60 and there is still strong needs for places the school keeps taking 60 and mobile classrooms start appearing on the playground.

If the current situation is as described above then any application for a year 1 or year 2 class would be turned down with classes of 30 and the infant class size regs would apply. However currently in reception you only have 45 and therefore classes of 22 and 23. Looking solely at that year group it therefore not an infant class size case. However one has to consider future infant class size prejudice. Move forward a year and presumably the school would be looking to take 45 and so you would have 45 in reception,45 in year 1 and 60 in year 2. There would be future infant class prejudice for year 1 in that situation as the classes are not near the 30 maximum. Move forward another year and you would then have 45 in all three classes and the only possible class organisation is 22/23 in reception and 3 classes of 30 across years 1 and year 2. So in the year that your child would be in year 2 there would be the potential for this to be future infant class size prejudice. That means that any appeal for now,as a reception age child would also be a future infant class size cases. It is not that the pupils are actually in place (you say that yea 1 is not full) but that there is a potential for them to be full. As PRH says the possibility of winning such an appeal is very very limited.

There is one other remote possibility and that is the school used to be a two from entry school with a PAN of 60 but changed last year to a PAN of 45.I say this is remote as there are very few places around the country where primary schools are reducing in size. However the same logic would apply and would still lead to any appeal being a future infant class size prejudice case.

I was told repeatedly by the council (as i queried it) that this is not an infant class size appeal. I just called the school and they have 45 in Reception, 50 in year one and 57 in year 2. This is an infant school. When I toured I was told there is space in year one currently and would be next year as head stated " year one /KS1 is two form entry of 60.

Are the 2 interconnected rooms very small? Were the same rooms occupied by the current Year 1 (so 50 children) when they were in reception, so have shown that using such rooms for over 45 children?

The reason I ask is because a school I taught in really wanted to move to a PAN of 30, and to teach in single age classes, but were restricted because 2 of the classrooms had been made by dividing a very large old Victorian classroom into 2, and the 2 spaces weren't quite big enough for 30 children each, despite all other areas of the school being big enough to expand.

Could you not just start him in Y1 with his age peers, btw? Has the current council agreed that he should be taught out of year all through to school leaving age?

the PAN has been 45 since 2013 when a bit of digging found this in the 2013 prospectus. "Our admission number is normally 45 but has been extended to 60 until July 2014 due to
demand for places in the local area."
Does this basically mean I have no chance in appeal? We are still waiting for the authority to allocate us another place but I see two options for plan B. 1: take up a year one place at our first preference now (meaning my child would completely miss reception and most likely really struggle as he has had no phonics etc in his nursery) or 2. attempt to transfer for next year and he will have had 3 different schools (the reception he has started pre house move, the allocated school and then to the one we are appealing as year one.)

That doesn't explain why they would have a space for him in Year 1 next year, IYSWIM? So why can they take a 46th - 60th child in once the group goes into Year 1, but that group has to be kept to 45 for reception?

Why is he going to Reception and not Y1 if he is already 5?

i know i am struggling to understand myself which is why i'm appealing. I don't really even understand 'admission's explanation above if I'm honest. The council has agreed to him starting out of year group- at this point it has already happened really- no official can claim it is in the child's best interest to miss reception (which is why I don't want him to now even if it does mean not getting the school we want-- its more not understanding how they can always have room in year one and not reception.) As far as room size- it is an older school building and they have done some rejigging from what i could gather from my tour with the head. I believe the rooms the yR kids have now used to be used by the nursery- they didn't seem overly small to me. The nursery is now in a sort of somewhat sublevel space that is new/recent. The KS1 (yr 1 and 2) are in 4 classrooms separate- not mixed.

So you fought for your DS to be held back a year and won. But now you have found that the only school with space could only take him in his 'proper' year group?

You might be best to go with that -your DS would be a bit behind due to the phonics but would soon catch up.

I agree with Prh (as usual) that the grounds of appeal you list are very commonly heard (parents don't always get sound advice on appeals) but very unlikely to sway a panel. They are all grounds that essentially say 'it's not fair, we live close by and should get a place'.

How far away is your new house from your old one? Can you realistically go backward and forward each day with him to the reception class he has - presumably- already started?

Is the preferred new school really prepared to admit him next year into Year 1? Are they prepared to take him out of year group? You of course run the risk that others will take the available places before you do, if you do that...

its 86miles away so no. Yes the new LEA has agreed to his starting reception. Hey lougle- no one predicted this move and its not by choice. I'm making the best choice for my child. I'm asking for help with an appeal not for criticism of the whole summer born debate. My current council held an independent panel to decide the best interests of my child and agreed with a CSA reception start- who are you to question it now? Unfortunately with the move we have missed out on the normal admissions round and ALL the schools are full. The preferred school did say it would be an option for a transfer in year one as there will be 15 places (and that others will be interested in them too-- but currently only 3 on the wait list)

I think I can see the issue.

They took an extra 15 kids in 2014 and 2013, so current year 1 and current year 2 can have a maximum of 60, hence the vacancy in year 1 as they only have 50 kids not 60.

PAN to current reception class has gone back to its usual 45 - presumably the LEA thought the school could cope with one (mixed year) extra class of 30 hence why the school admitted 2 extra lots of 15. The current reception classes when they get to year 2 will be combined with next years reception intake of 45, who will be in year 1 by the time the current reception are in year 2. These year 1 and year 2 children will total 90 (45 in each cohort) and be taught in 3 classes of 30, at least one will be mixed. This is future class size prejudice hence why admission to current reception is likely to be impossible as it will be ICS unless a mistake has been made which doesn't seem to have happened.

If you're happy with the school I think I'd go for the year 1 place to be honest.

As I read it, school 3 has just said 'unwilling to admit out of year group'. Do they have spaces in Reception? If the council has agreed it, can the school say no?

Titchy, but that doesn't explain why the head seems to be expecting 15 places - to make the year group up to 60 - as soon as the current reception class hits Year 1?

No need to be snarky to lougle. She hasn't said anything nasty to you - just pointed out the facts - you're the one that asked for advice. She has a LOT of appeal experience and was just telling you the situation how it is.

I suspect the head isn't quite sure what the LEA agreed with the previous bulge intakes.....

school 3 does have spaces but it is its own admissions authority so does not have to abide by LEA decision. The facts are not " But now you have found that the only school with space could only take him in his 'proper' year group? ". There are places in school 3 and there are places over 2 miles away that will admit him. Plus schools 1 and 2 we applied for were willing to take him but are full. On top of the fact that have had no trouble finding a school place for him in our current LA- it is just that we are now an in-year application and choices are severely limited and have been complicated by the muddy waters of starting school at CSA. Sorry but to me that comment seemed snarky and not relevant.

I wasn't being snarky, I was checking I understand the facts. I used to sit on appeals panels, so was trying to help you. If you re-read my earlier post you'll see that I was telling you that you will not (should not) win an appeal on those arguments because they are all weak and don't overcome the prejudice to the school of taking another child.

If it is the school I think it is, the 2013 prospectus doesn't tell us enough information. For Titchy's explanation to work, there would need to be 2 years of 60 intake. But the prospectus is ambiguous, as to how long they've increased to 60 for.

School 3 'having spaces' is not going to help you if they won't accept a child out of year.

If you want to win an appeal, you firstly have to double check that this is not ICS based on future prejudice -have you spoken to the appeals manager? Do you have it in writing that it isn't an ICS appeal? Because if

Titchy is right. In 2012 they had a PAN of 45. In 2013 and 2014 it went to 60 and now in 2015 it's back to 45.

So across years R-2 there are 152 children. But they have 45 in Yr R and if they take another then they'll be over number. They can't do that even if they want to, hence appeal.

I'm not sure it goes to future ICS, though because the year 2s will be junior next year, so there will be 45 YR R, 45 Y1s and 50 Y2s. That means they'll have to have a YR/Y1, YR, Y1, and 2 Y2 classes. I don't think ICS will come into it because whatever they do, with 140 children in YR-2, they'll have to have 5 classes.

Hmm...scrap that. It may well be future ICS because they will have to proceed on the basis that the capacity for Y1 is 60, so they could have 150 children in YR-2, which means that your child would push them up to 161, so it's ICS.

I'm sorry lougle- its a tough time (without this school appeal) and the lack of spaces combined with some suggestion that we might just take the year one place has left me touchy. Just curious how can you tell what school I'm appealing to?

I'm still struggling to understand the numbers breakdown you present into year groups. Are you saying that they will start mixing YR and YR1 classes- -and if so how do you know that? I think i'm not understanding the basics here. (Which is why i've posted to try and get up to some understanding- as it does seem that my only hope is to contest their fullness?)