Waiting lists for reception :-(

[Sobloodyworried123]

Honestly is there actually any movement on these lists?
Have been offered a school im very unhappy with, bad ofsted report and safety issues but have to accept it decline it by 30th.
We are number 1, 4 and 8 on the top 3 preferences, is this likely to come into play by January? Or am I mad for even thinking it might?
Added pressure of younger sons application needing to be completed by jan 15th so it's not as if I can trial and error things

What are the intakes for each school? It's difficult to say whether there's a shot without this info. Obviously the higher the PAN the more likely it is.
If you're in London then it's probably more likely as seems to be a fair bit of movement all year round as people move in and out of the city.

Can you ask the council how many children were accepted from the waiting list at each school last year?

Also I'd have a look at any other schools you would find acceptable that have spaces, so you have a back up.

You should take the place you have and stay on the waiting lists for the ones you want. If you refuse, the council have done their duty and don't have to give you a space.

I think you should stick to one thread about this, this is your 7th or 8th thread on the topic in the last weeks, you will get much better advice in one big thread which will move fast with lots of people looking in than all these little ones people may or may not find.

As for movement on these lists, some move a lot some never move. A mumsnetter from East Barnet getting in and a West Lothian one still waiting tells you zilch about what it will be like for your particular school in your year.

Depends on things like where you live (so how transient the population is), how big the school intake is.

It's pretty pointless anyone speculating on how likely your child is to get a place at a preferred school from the waiting list without that information. I don't expect the waiting list for my local school to move at all this year, but that doesn't tell you anything about your preferred schools.

And as reni2 says, turning down the offered place would remove the council's obligation to find any space for your child.

Just turn it down and go on every list within close proximity. There are more than 3 perfectly good schools nearer than that one, in and out of your borough. None of them are "bad" so aside from your religious preference it shouldn't be that hard to find one suitable.

Actually that's incorrect as from what they've said they have a duty that continues more so when he's legally obligated to be in school / educated so whatever I turn down now is neither here nor there come January when they have to offer him a place somewhere although could obviously be at a worse school / a lot further away which is my concern.
The admissions team have also asked me if I'll be accepting this offer before being prepared to add me onto any more waiting lists which seems odd as I thoight you could be on as many as you wish ( I was on 5 and wanted to add 2 more )
The problem is lots of schools won't even let me view the school before an offer is made.

Afaik what you have said isn't correct - they will have no further responsibility once he is legally obliged to be at school if you have rejected a place they have offered.

Realistically you won't accept this offer so turn it down. You also need to determine your priorities. Are you so desperate to get him into school now that you are willing to accept a compromise on distance/standards ( on past threads suspect not) or will you wait for somewhere more local and cope with the uncertainty. I'm still not clear why you seem to have ruled out so many potentially nearer schools yet list those some way away which you aren't happy with. It seems very unlikely that you will get one of your rc choices soon but you can remain on their lists even if he starts elsewhere. What does your dh/p think?

Op, you are wrong about the school, if you turn it down they do NOT have to offer an alternative. Otherwise everyone would decline every school until they get what they want.

I haven't read your other threads - I assume DC1 is now able to go to school but isn't yet 5 so you are deferring entry until Jan - is that right?

I believe the ombudsman ruled it was legal to restrict the number of lists you are on.

What you are up against is that, now pupils have started in reception, they are much less likely to leave for eg private school. Of course something may happen, divorce or job change or bereavement meaning a child leaves the school where you are top of the list before Jan, but I wouldn't say it's that likely, especially if school is single form entry.

None of them are single form entry schools, they are all 2 some 3 entry schools.
No I'm not saying you can just keep refusing until you get the place you want, I'm just saying that if I refuse this school then come January when he is legally meant to be in school I could then apply again and they legally have to offer him a school as he is at the legal age of requirement.
That school could be the same offer / one further away or one closer but they do have to make an offer.
If I refused it then I would have to find a school myself be it private ( can't afford or would ) or home educate.
I agree with the lists, it's very hard as we are new to the area so were very limited to what we knew about schools so I thought I was doing the right thing by asking what schools had places and putting those on my list however that hasn't worked in my favour as they are all some distance away and have poor ofsted reports and I haven't been able to view lots of them as they won't let you in until they have offered you a place so very hard to rule schools out on that basis.
I can't even see this school in question until Friday and I have to reply to the council by next Wednesday however the letter states " schools won't generally defer more than 4 weeks and will usually want the child to start school in 10 days as a maximum " which then throws out my plan of accepting it but deffering until January in the hope of something better comes along.

Husband thinks it's time to be open to non faith schools now which I have done, all the other schools on the list are within 2 miles.
I only wanted the catholic school as easier transition to secondary was my thinking as would have some familiar faces etc it's not the be all and end all

OP,

You must not turn this school down. If you do, my understanding is that you will become wholly responsible for finding your child a school, whenever you choose to do that. There is, as i understand it, NO new obligation for the council to find you a school in January, even if you make another application then. You would be an in-year admission, for which the council would essentially say 'no, no places, but you are anyway responsible for finding a suitable education for this child, as you have been since you turned down the place elsewhere, so bye'. You would then be required to go through the whole appeals process.

I don't know if the 'responsibility for finding a school place' EVER reverts to the council once you have turned down a place that you have been offered - admissions experts would be able to help you there.

What you should do is
a) accept the place then
b) defer your child taking it up, which you can do until the term after your child turns 5 while
c) getting on every waiting list that you can

Hoping someone expert turns up soon, as there is some worrying advice on here - PM admissions or prh47 or tiggytape.

Firstly, you CAN accept the place but defer until January- this option is open to all Reception starters, legally they have to allow it. I suspect the info about deferring in your letter is based on in-year transfers rather than reception children.

Secondly, I'm pretty sure that they will NOT have to make you a new offer in January. They have fulfilled their legal requirement by making the offer now, ensuring that there is a place available for when your DC has to be in school. If you refuse the place, it then becomes your responsibility to ensure he is in education.

You can:
a) accept, defer until Jan and hope something else comes up or
b) Refuse and accept that if no place comes up, you may have to home ed until a place is available.

This was mor the advice I received from the admissions officer.
I quite clearly asked what would happen if I turned down this school yet nothing on all 7 waiting lists had arisen by then and they said I would need to contact them again in December and they would allocate a place for January as that's when he legally has to be in school.
At the moment he doesn't, I could have moved here last month and not even made the application until December / January if I wanted to so these offers are actually irrelevant.
Believe me, I've had many conversations with them as well as the council directly to check this and they have all confirmed the same thing although obviously have always stated that the school offered in January could be anywhere ( although if over 3 miles would have to provide transport )
The most worrying thing is my other child's application as otherwise I would def hold out until January in hope it was something closer

Well, if they are prepared to make you another offer in Jan, you could choose to wait for that. Do you have anything in writing saying that they will definitely do this?

Do you have that in writing? Because it's not how everyone else runs their admissions!

I'm with MrsKCastle - my worry would be that, unless you have the assurance in writing that if you turn down this place they HAVE to find you a place in January, you could go back to them in December in good faith, only for them to say
'Oh no, sorry, you turned down a place - legally we don't have to help you'

Yes I do have it in writing in an email I will repeat it for you
" If you have not accepted a school place for your child come December, please contact us again so that we can make an offer by the start of the January term when he is of compulsory age to be educated.
Until this time you can remain on all waiting lists you are currently on however the place we are able to offer you come this point may not be one of these preferences and there is no guarantee this will be a local school within 2 miles however we would be liable for transport if this was the case "

Yes of course I know what schools I would prefer for my daughter but they are all local and the offer is not therefore that in itself proves impossible and very few schools have before and after clubs to make it any more possible along with the fact I start work at 5 so need to leave at 4.30 which can't happen with 2 school runs in 2 different areas.
The local catholic school advised me to keep eldest at home, start youngest as he would then go to the top of the list however very risky as a year 1 child would still need to leave to free that place up.

" If you have not accepted a school place for your child come December, please contact us again so that we can make an offer by the start of the January term when he is of compulsory age to be educated.

To me that is a bit ambiguous - "not accepted" may not be quite the same as "declined"

The school should not be advising you any such thing, IMO.

OP, even if your LA lets you do an in year application in jan, there probably won't be any additional places that have opened up, you will be put in the school best placed to take an additional child, which may be more undesirable than your current offer. Also the transport, if you are offered this, may not be at times that suit you as you work.