Opting out of RE - real experiences please

[Redspottygranola]

DS1 has just started year 1 of a CofE primary. It is the only school we are in catchment for and all the other local schools are oversubscribed so there is no chance we can move him (or DS2 and DD when they are old enough). The school is excellent except that it is way more religious than I thought it would be. DH and I are atheists although DH doesn't get anywhere near as bothered as me about the brain washing. They thank god before lunch and say lots of prayers at assembly- their RE content is around how good Christians can please god rather than exploring other cultures and beliefs. DS1 is sponging it all up hook line and sinker and it's really starting to grate on me. Am considering opting him out of the worshipping and RE but would like to hear other parents' experiences. No god botherers please.

Well Father Christmas/Easter Bunny/Tooth fairy is fairly relevant if you let him believe in them? Isn't it?

A lot of the responses to the OP seem to miss the point entirely. If you're not Christian or not religious at all for that matter it's inappropriate to have your school make your children sit through religious ceremonies. Opting out is not really an option for many as it only serves to make your child feel different from everyone else. Many people also don't have a choice but to attend a church school to choosing a different school isn't always an option. And it's not about tollerance either. Tollerance in my mind isn't making someone attend a religious ceremony and say if you don't like it you should be more tolerant. And that's even more important for children who are very impressionable especially in the early years. It's also not about the religion being flexible or diverse. If you're not religious its just inappropriate because it's religion. Religion is a personal conviction which you either have or don't have. You can respect someone else's right to be religious but it doesn't mean you're intolerant if you don't want your children to sit through religious ceremonies at school.

OP I missed the start where you've mentioned that it's the only school you can get into, sorry. Ugh, that would concern me too. However, trust in your kid making their own mind up as they get older. They most likely won't get indoctrinated even though they're young! They have you to come home to, and can expect to learn from you that not everyone believes in god etc.

Completely agree cgehansen.

PotteringAlong: in great swathes of (especially rural) England the ONLY primary schools are CoE primary schools. This is the historical legacy of the CoE having risen to the challenge of education for all, and all credit to them for that.

Whether it is a good enduring model for a contemporary society is another question. You can hardly blame a poster for having no other available choice for which she is on catchment for. An atheist having been allocated a faith school is not grounds for appeal. Did you read the OP?

I'm an atheist. My kids went to CofE primary and family members used to take them to church.
By the time they were each in year 4 - left to make their own decision they had each grown out of religion
and are as atheist as I am.

I did not make an issue of it .
I trusted them to assess the lack of evidence and reach the sane conclusion.

If you do not trust your child to do the same, I would question why.

"If you do not trust your child to do the same I would question why" again just misses the point. Why should children have to take part in something that their parents don't believe in and then we justify it by saying eventually they will realise it was just one view of the world? We would tolerate any other organsation controlling a school assembly in that way so why is it OK for the church? Imagine your local school was run by Scientologists and your kids came home believing in Scientology because that's what they were told the school believes in at assembly. Apologies to any Scientologists reading this!

cge
CofE schools are not like other religious schools.
AS has been said up thread, in much of the country, outside the big cities, they are the only primary schools
and there is absolutely no faith requirement for admission.

Other denomination schools : yup, I'd not even consider
BUT

I'm always wary about parents enforcing their views on children : I believe that kids have the capacity to weigh up evidence

and if you take all religion out of schools - as in the USA, you do not end up with less religion.

Compulsory RE as done in the UK is the best way ever invented to create Atheists

Even in a non denominational school there will still be prayers in assemblies etc.

Not true. There are no prayers in my school.

My DC's community primary, with a hugely multi-faith, multi-cultural membership managed to hold interesting, thought provoking assemblies that supported the caring family atmosphere of the school with absolutely no prayers or religious worship, or references to (anyone's ) God.

Obviously flouting the curriculum rules but they had 'outstanding ' status anyway.

They also did visits to places at the centre of many religious practices and learned about all the main world religions , as well as discussing , on a daily basis, ways to behave as a caring , considerate, ethical member of the school. It was a happy, tolerant, effective school.

peace you don't like parents enforcing their views on children but it's ok if complete strangers in schools do it? Eh?? For the record I'm not imposing any views - just not talking about religious stuff and if DS brings it up I just say "that's what some people believe". Again, I don't see why he should even be exposed to this stuff! I send him to school to be educated about real life. Religion is just a bunch of ideas some folks believe in for whatever reason. It's all very well saying he should grow out of it ( like Santa) but some peeps obviously don't. Really if you want your child indoctrinated then go to church with them.

Religion is very much part of real life for a lot of people - so studying religion leads to an understanding of much of society. Even if its "just" an understanding of different beliefs, tolerance, why different people think as they do. As well as some ideas about different cultures. Ethics and philosophy is also bound up in RE, so topics such as the environment and prejudice and discrimination will also be covered alongside the traditional stories.

You could as easily say "history is just the past, we don't need that!"

Well no. History is about events which really happened. In real life. For real. Well documented facts. Religion is about beliefs which people hold in their minds. Not at all real.

People's beliefs and cultures are real, and people actions based on those (however misguided) beliefs are very real. To understand society and people an understanding of religion is helpful. Children growing up knowing why people might be fasting at certain times of the year, why certain festivals take place, why certain people act as they do.

Also study skills such as debating topics and ethical issues, thinking issues through.

An understanding of stories which are found in art and literature ....

I think it would be a shame to miss part of their education. I similarly wish acts of worship shouldn't be in school. But religious education is nothing to do with enforcing beliefs and everything to do with a rounded education.

I know in the "Old days" there was religious instruction, and in catholic schools there can be teaching of their faith, but Religious Education as a topic is a fantastic preparation for philosophy, critical thinking and debate as well as understanding of the world around us.

You are sounding more ridiculous the more you write redspotted.

RE is more than just Christianity. It is learning about all religions and how other people and cultures think and approach things. For example it taught me not to offer pork to any Jewish friends. Simple but avoided a lot of embarrassment. I is important we all know about religious beliefs to breed tolerance in society.

Why not take your child to church? You have taught him one aspect of religion, atheism. There are thousands more out there, give him the chance to make up his own mind.

I think the OP would have no problem with RE as you are describing, which is as it should, education about what some groups of people believe and their practices. She does not want her child being taught one of those religion's beliefs as fact.

OP you are a scientist. So test the option available to you. Why not remove your child, as you are entitled to do and see what the result is? Whatever another parent/child's experience may have been, as you asked about in your first post, it was not in your DC's school with that set of staff and that specific collective worship/ RE curriculum planning.

Have the courage to follow your conviction that religion should play no direct role in your DC's life.

If you choose to discuss school religious activities and the RE curriculum with staff you may find out more about what is actually covered in RE teaching but you are unlikely to persuade them to remove all prayers/hymns etc from Collective Worship (that's the term for Assembly in CoE schools).

Let us know how it is for your DC/you at the end of the year perhaps.

redsptty
I take it this is your first child so your actual experience of how kids cope with RE and assemblies and prayers is pretty limited.

The more of a fuss you make, the more of an issue it becomes.

RE in any CofE school will include understanding all of the major religions : which gives an insight into world culture and politics and war and lots else.

NOT letting kids understand that some people love mumbo jumbo is not a good idea.

I'd start by talking to the school. As a CoE school, they may not have even realised that they have children from non-faith backgrounds. They may well prefer to bring more inclusive wording into their RE teaching to avoid having to find an alternative for a withdrawn child. They may, fairly sensibly, be willing to compromise with only taking your child out of lessons where they present faiths fact. This would be a little easier than having him out of all sessions.

Surely it is your child's right as a human being to make his own mind up when it comes to religion. How is he going to be able to do that if he is not allowed the opportunity to learn about different belief systems.
You say that last term was more balanced and other religions and faiths were taught. Term has not long started so you have not really given the school a chance.

Another atheist signing in who found your god botherer post abrasive.

My children do not go to a c of e school, they go to a school with harvest assemblies, the Easter story, the nativity play etc. The older one still came home and presents Anglican god-related things as fact (god sent the baby Jesus etc). He's now learning about Buddhism and various other cultures.

I have little doubt that he will make up his own mind sometime in his teens. He's already not convinced Santa is real...

A balanced approaches to RE involves studying a variety of faiths over a period of time - so one term Hinduism, one term Christianity is still balanced! Not sure what about learning whether Christians respect the environment is problematic either
BUT it is often in the approach. The syllabus doesn't specify the words the teacher uses, so i suspect it is the "how should we all please God?" approach rather than "how do Christians try to please God?" that is rankling. There are opportunities for you to alter this. A parent asking the school about the RE curriculum, or expressing concerns about words used is likely to have an impact even if only to make the teacher cautious of what is said around your ds. I assume you didn't have to say you were religious to get into the Cofe school?

I think what stands out is that this religion is all new to DC as not taught at home. He comes home to process the information. I dont see how you can change a school of believers for one non believer.

I would deeply resent the only state choice being a religious one. Frankly, Britain hasn't been a Christian country in anything but name for quite a long time now, and I strongly believe that state funded education should be secular.

I do think religious education, taught thoughtfully and sensitively is an important part of the curriculum because it's important to understand different religions. I don't believe religious worship should be part of the school day unless that school is a private, non-state-funded school.

But state education ISN'T secular and religious worship HAS to be part of the school day. Argue against it, try to change it, write petitions about it but please don't blame the school for doing what it is required to do!
If you want to remove your child from RE and worship then do so, personally I think they would miss out on a great deal of discussion and learning but that's just one view, other people will have their own ( we had one atheist family who withdrew their child from all RE lessons about Christianity but were happy for them to study Hinduism, Judaism and Islam which I thought rather unusual but was their choice!).