Great news for summer borns...

[satinpillowcase]

www.theguardian.com/education/2015/sep/08/parents-of-summer-born-children-get-right-to-delay-start-of-school

To the person who asked if you started part way through the year, did you have 7 years in primary? No, mine both had six years and two terms. They had two terms in Reception and then because it was a small village school had two terms in a year 1 & 2 class.

There must be a lot of village schools where teachers have to deal with a two year spread of age as a matter of course, so that in itself shouldn't be a problem.

In Scotland, it has changed the way people look at the school year esp in private schools where it is now standard to defer Nov birthdays onwards. Annoyingly it had just moved the problem to a certain extent as now Sept/Oct borns are considered 'young' for their year. I've also actually heard more than one parent say this despite having held their own child back. I have to bite my lip not to make a comment that it is actually their child who was held back rather than the other child being young. It also means that lots of children are almost 6 when they start school and teaches have to address an 18-month potential age gap. I don't want to hold my child back as if we move back to England they end up missing a year.

The issue with Sept-Feb birthdays in Scotland is that unless they are held back they will start uni aged 17 as Scotland has one less year of education and this is the one thing that makes me think holding back a year is a good idea. For E&W, If you hold back a child what happens if they hit 16 before they do their GCSEs?

Sorry, teachers not teaches.

I'm not persuaded that this will lead to mass middle-class deferrals - I suspect that deferrals will become more common for boys than for girls. The system will work fine if parents defer sensibly (I know this is a big assumption!) and are guided by nursery professionals who are usually well-placed to assess maturity and school-readiness.

I don't think age gaps are an issue per se. My DS is in a Y9-equivalent class (not in the UK) where the oldest student has a March 2001 birthday and the youngest February 2003. It's certainly not the case that the oldest students are the furthest ahead or the most advantaged, as deferral usually happens for a reason.

Our local school system is moving away from deferral/ repeating years, because the evidence is that it doesn't work, but the system is very different from the UK. I think there is a decent chance that the UK deferral policy will turn out to be helpful overall, although there are questions that still need to be answered, eg how it will affect children from deprived backgrounds who would benefit from deferral but whose parents may be unable or unwilling to request it. It will only work if there is decent quality f/t nursery provision for these children.

Misti like the Scottish system - would be great - if it was it done sensibly. But it is isn't - it almost the default for Jan/Feb birthdays in state schools - and the norm in private ones - as Ialways said - is Nov (especially if they start later than 'reception' (P1) -I know children who have done P7 (last year of primary) twice - once in a state school and once in a private one) .
I said in DD2's year there are 2 children who were deferred for probably good reason (one comes from a less MC background, has slight SEN - I would imagine the school pushed for it, the other I know little about suspect health etc reasons) but then others who the only reason was it gives them an academic advantage -and that is encouraged by the schools. (I am a tiny bit about it - I would imagine also for teachers in the early years the older they are the easier they are - likely to need less help with changing etc).
It reduces the benefit of deferring for those who 'needed' to be as they can still end up in a class with quite a few children who are older than they are but much more capable -it really can skew the class.

Basically what unlucky83 is saying in Scotland, all it achieved is shifting the year's intake. The problem then would be Feb/Mar being youngest in class. They will be 'immature' compared to children born April last year. It would be sensible if those deferred do have a need. And they would benefit to be with people younger. But what you'll see is pushy parents delaying entry to gain a competitive advantage. I'm not the slight bit surprised school encourages it too because they will also gain an exam results advantage. And if they don't do it, they'll be out performed by schools who do.

The ministry of education should just give up and say, the school year will now be taking April to Mar for the year. At least then you won't disadvantage parents of summer born who aren't pushy enough to end up in classes with children more than a year older than them. I worry this will further widen the achievement gap of the rich and poor.

The thing is even if you move the school year, you will likely to find continued evidence of you measure early on as someone is always the youngest. They moved the school year in Scotland so the youngest would be 4.5 years but now it's just being pushed back again. I don't think you can win.

I am middle class but would struggle financially with another yr of childcare but would do it as ds clearly not ready. Have been treated as precious when clearly I was right

What has class to do with it

I think it's a good idea, especially if needing to keep and secure places in the popular schools. Though I would add that you can defer an education for any age child for as long as you please, providing you make sure they're receiving an education (home ed. advert )

You can defer a school/institution education that should be

Here in Ireland you can choose which year you want your child to be in. Send at 4 or 5. We have the unusual position whereby my child (born in March) is nearly the youngest in her class and a number of children are over a year older than her. It seems fairly straightforward for a child to repeat a year of primary (normally early primary) so long as they are one of the younger ones.

Here's an article talking about research on the LONG term consequences of a child being one of the youngest in their class and... it's positive!

www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/youngest-kid-smartest-kid

gybegirl that's a good article. What it doesn't explore, nor the research it was based on,is the possibility that many of those older children in the classroom are simply less intellectual or academic. This could be the basic reason they are performing worse at middle and high school, their intellect, not their relative age.

Apparently the whole summer born effect is greatly reduced in countries where there is a later school starting age: educationmediacentre.org/newsreactions/summer-born-children-what-age-is-best-to-start-school/

I appreciate that these countries do have Kindergartens etc, so maybe the best solution, rather than delaying start dates, would be to have a play-based curriculum throughout infants, using Year 2 when they are 6/7 to introduce more formal methods ready for juniors when more students have a fighting chance of being ready.

Where I live in Scotland the majority of children start school just after they turn 5. Children born October to February can start either at 4 or defer until they turn 5. All March to July children must be 5, those with August / September birthdays may still be 4 (our term starts in mid-August). All children get 7 full years of primary and start secondary school some time around their twelfth birthday.
The system works so much better than the English system I grew up in. We moved here when ds1 (May born) was in nursery, and I am eternally grateful that we did. He was nowhere near ready to start school at 4 (although bright he had had hearing loss and needed significant speech therapy). Because he started school at 5 he was ready academically and emotionally and is now doing extremely well in his second year of high school.
Ds 2 was October born and went to school 6 weeks before he turned 5. It's not an easy decision but the nursery teachers offer parents advice and work together to do what is best for the pupils.
Tbh the stuff about 11+ and holding ready kids back to gain some advantage years down the line totally baffles me, as does the idea of putting a not ready child to school just to save a few quid in childcare. It just doesn't happen here (or certainly not that I have ever ever seen).
And in answer to some of the questions about funding, if a child defers under our system they are entitled to keep their funded nursery place for the extra year. And where some primary intakes are larger than others then the number of teaching positions funded is calculated based on the role in that given year. No child is ever denied a place at their 'catchment school', although they are allowed to apply for another school if they prefer.

Just to correct Natalie for any Scottish parents reading this - if your child is Jan/Feb and you defer you automatically get the Nursery funding for the extra year. If your child is born 1 Sept - 31st Dec you defer you can apply for the extra years funding (for the deferred year) but you might not get it....don't count on it! (Currently know someone with a late Dec born prem looking to defer - and they are worried they might not get funding for the Nursery year)

I completely disagree that all middle class parents of summer born children will defer entry to gain advantage for their children. What a load of competitive parenting rubbish.

They definitely will! I was only too glad to off-load my strong-willed DD onto school as soon as it was legally possible, but if sending her on time meant that she would potentially be an even younger summer born (she's May) than she already is then I wouldn't even have to think about it. It would be a no brainer.

As it was, DH and I had agreed that if we didn't conceive the month we did, then we'd take a break to avoid a July/August baby.

I'm an August born and it definitely affected how I did in school - although more socially than academically. I have a lot of sympathy with parents of August babies who aren't ready for school and especially parents of prem babies who should really be a year below, but a blanket parental demand for all summer-borns would be a nightmare and especially for summer borns whose parents don't delay them.

Sorry unlucky.. Must be my lea or maybe things have changed since I made the decision 5 years ago.. I know I was offered the choice with my October born without a funding implication.. That sounds really unfair for your friend.

Natalie I don't anyone who has had a Dec born that hasn't got the funding -so it is in theory really. But now it has gone upto 600 hrs and in our LA at least the hourly rate has gone up too (first time for 5 yrs+) they do seem to be less keen to hand it out.

People forget that being the oldest can also be a disadvantage for some, ie bright mature kids with autumn birthdays. I went through my UK education feeling out of place and bored (and this was at a school with an 11+ intake).

My children are in a school system where it is possible for academically very able kids to move up a year - which they have both done, with no obvious detrimental effects either academically or socially.

Is this definitely happening or is it yet to go through approval?

All that will happen is the youngest shifts. People will avoid that month and some children will always be disadvantaged.

Defering in scotland is rife now my 2 are older and hardly anybody deferred maybe 1 or 2 and that was usually children who had difficulties dd2 is a Feb birthday I didnt defer it has its ups and downs she went right up to her 6thyr high school and is at college . parents now want to defer from october birthdays which is imo ridiculous

People will feel they HAVE to defer (because who wants to be the parent they didn't give their child the best chance) therefor creating school years April being the oldest an March being the youngest therefore creating the same problem

Dd is July born and more than ready for school, she is just 7 and in the literacy groups with the children now turning 8
My 2 boys are autumn born and were much less ready for school