Please help with complicated primary applications issues!

[EverydayAnya]

Sorry this is going to be so long and boring. Will try to bullet point.

1. We currently live somewhere out of catchment for any local schools

1. We are trying to sell our house and buy somewhere local but within catchment of schools. We couldn't do it earlier because DH was on a contract job (so technically self employed) and couldn't get a mortgage as he was doing this for less than 3 years (I didn't get all te specifics). His company have now offered him a permanent contract and so it's only now he has been able to get a mortgage for the new house.

1. The house isn't selling and so we can't buy anywhere else. Application deadline is January 15. I just don't see us selling and buying within th next 4 months.

1. I'm having DC2 in 6 weeks and am soooo stressed.

1. What do we do??!!

My main issues are as follows:

1. Can we rent near a school for January and then try to buy a house near it later on? That would be ok wouldn't it as we would still be in catchment?

1. What if we rent near the school for January but then find a house which isn't in the catchment for that school anymore but for a different school (still in same borough) Can we still keep the first place? Would we even get a place at second school as they are all massively oversubscribed? So if it's in June let's say and all the places have already been allocated what would happen to us?

Is it still fraudulent to stay at first school even though we have not tried to be deliberately fraudulent it's just that we didn't find a house we wanted there??

1. Is there a minimum amount of time you can be at an address before it's ok to move elsewhere but still remain at the school. For example if you are in one house from reception to year 1 and then move house surely it's then ok to still continue at same

School even if you're not in the catchment?

I am so confused and unsure about what to do. We are trying to do the right thing and nothing's going in our favour. I'm utterly stressed about where DS will go and where the heck we are going to be living over the next year

Any help and advice would be massively appreciated.

Thanks!

1. No. That would be classed as a fraudulent application. It is likely the LA would use the address of the house you own and ignore the rented property. Even if they did use the rented address they can remove the place if and when they find out what you have done. Indeed, they can still remove the place after your child has started at school.

Given the answer to your first question the other two questions are irrelevant. I'm afraid you have to apply using your current address. The LA has to come up with a place for your child somewhere. It may not be a school you want and it could be some distance from home but they will find a place.

If you manage to sell your house and move into rented accommodation before 15th January that puts you in a different position. Applying from the rented address would then be ok. The answer to you other questions then would be:

1. It depends when you complete the purchase of the new house. If it is after you have been offered and accepted a place you would be entitled to keep the place (but see below). If it is before offers are made what happens depends on the council's rules. And that pretty much answers 3 as well - there is no minimum period.

Unfortunately selling your house, moving into rented accommodation then buying another house in the same general area may be classed as fraudulent whatever your intention. Your best option if it is possible is to sell your current house and move into another before mid-January.

I have huge sympathy as we were in a similar position.We did manage to sell in time though, after taking advice (from mumsnet, of course!) that our place was overpriced.

We'd had 4 agents value it, with prices ranging from £250k to £290k. When we dropped the asking price from £279 to £250 it sold.

Might the same be true for you?

Are the schools you are likely to go for usually oversubscribed? There will be a process for late admissions. I have no idea what it is but maybe worth asking the Admissions team.

Like sleepyelectricsheep says, the speed of your sale will be affected most strongly by your asking price, so price it for a quick sale and you may well make the deadline.

Perhaps plan to just sell and move to rented ASAP which will keep the chain short and speed things up. If you don't own another house elsewhere there is nothing fraudulent about renting near the school you want without being certain where you will eventually end up. People who are permanently in the rental market often have to move as contracts end and this doesn't mean they lose school places.

I'm glad you've reposted here OP. PRH is an expert!

Thanks all. I have posted in two areas for lots of answers so will reply to both.
My concern is that we will definitely not get into any schools from our house. We are in redbridge if anyone knows the borough and it's very over subscribed in my particular bit.

We are definitely selling and even going to lower price this week.

My main issue is that we don't want to rush into buying any old house in next 6 weeks just to make the deadline. So I really need to know if we can rent for the application deadline (and we have sold our house) get offered a place and then have the breathing space to find a house we really want. Would the LA take away that place if the new house was no longer in catchment?

prh are you saying that would be ok?

The idea of me trying to view houses with a 4 day old/1 week old etc is pretty depressing. I had horrible PND the first time and I just don't feel I'm going
To be up to making massive life decisions at that time!

Are there rentals available in the area you want and have you checked last distance admitted to be sure they are ok?

I'm
So sorry. I seem to have posted twice in Primary Education. It was when mumsnet was really slow last night. Apologies.

yonic. There are rentals yes though not many. We would have to catch the right one on that front too

The LA have to find him a school place somewhere within the local authority.
Another option would be to hold off sending him to school until you know where you will be. Not sure that's practical for most people though!
House sales can move quite quickly. Fingers crossed.

Some LEAs have procedures for people who arrive in area between the application deadline and the allotment of places - I would check with red bridge what they do

We did 1, didn't realise it was so outrageous (lol). It was exactly the area we wanted to move to (across country btw). We actually did move in but we couldnt buy yet because we had to wait for house sale. DH's job was moving and I didn't want him to work away many days a week while I was still stuck in won't-sell house. I would have thought this was very very common sort of problem.

If OP is talking about renting a house without living in it, I can understand that is fraudulent. The other scenario is just transition to new area.

We moved to rented house in February so had to do late application to the local schools but wasn't a problem.

The issue is we are not moving across country which is clearly not fraudulent but literally possibly a few roads away!

Trout, it makes a big difference if you are moving across the country as it's clear that it's a genuine move.

y catchment I don't mean catchment! As PP said I mean cut off distance. So out of 5 nears schools we are atill
Out of their last cut off point. Think 1.1 miles away from one which has 0.9 as cut off for example. So where will we end up? In the admissions booklet which has all 45 odd schools in the borough the highest cut off point is a few miles but we still wouldn't qualify for that as we are miles away. I just don't know where they will put us.

I do know last year the LA ended up in the daily mail because it was offering non Sikh children places at he local Sikh school because that's all that was available! So the situation is pretty dire.

I have no intention to keep the house and rent. We are definitely selling and are planning to lower price this week for quick sell. I just need to make sure paperwork is down for January on that front. I'm stressed about that not happening and hoping I can use solicitor documents etc to prove we are in fact in process of selling. Would that work?

OP I've read your chat update but I'll reply to it here

I'm not sure having paperwork from the solicitor to show you are in the process of selling will help. After all, that sale could fall through from no fault of your own. Again, best to ask the LA direct on this

Regarding your LA allotting non-Sikh children to a Sikh school, that's fine. All religious schools have a category for "children of other/no faith" somewhere in the list; without it, I don't think they could get public funding. If there are spaces at that school then it's right of the LA to use them.

Finally, if you are 1.1 miles from your nearest school and its distance last year was 0.9miles, the distance this year may be greater or less, depending on numbers of siblings and population distribution. You should check back a few years for all schools you might be interested in.

X post - you reposted it here!

How bad would it be, OP, if you sent your house to auction? At least it means a quick sale.

Out situation is slightly different, but there are some similarities so I'll tell you my experiences. I don't think these are typical nationwide, as a disclaimer.

We own a flat out of catchment for Dd's current school. We moved out of that and into rented accommodation when she was 1yo - we had outgrown it and couldn't sell it (-ive equity), so we rent a house.

The flat we own and the house we own are both in the catchment area for school A. There is also a catholic school (school B) right next door, but for obvious reasons it has a much wider catchment area and different admissions criteria, although it's usually undersubscribed and so you don't have to be catholic to get in. Neither of these schools are particularly good, but I liked the atmosphere in school B.

We always wanted DD to go to school C (her current school) so we've spent the last 4 years looking for a suitable house to rent in that catchment area without success. That school is very well regarded locally, so is usually oversubscribed, but is a similar walking distance to school A & B.

At the time that we did her school applications, we were also thinking about eventually buying on the other side of town eventually, where there is another lovely school (School D).

I'll get to the point now

When we did the applications, we could put 3 choices. We put the least likely first - school C -, followed by school B (best chance of getting in), followed by D as a punt.

She got into C. She was one of 3 out of catchment admissions in an intake of 54.

As long as you're living in the house you're planning to rent, and that is your main residence, it's ok to rent in the catchment area you want a place in. Also, a couple of kids in DD's year have had to move house during the year, out of catchment. One is moving school for year 1, one is keeping her place because her mum works near the school. If you get a place and then move house, it might be more practical to move school, but if they're all oversubscribed there's no guarantee you'll get a place in the new catchment area. It's ok to stay at the original school that you have a place at anyway.

When it comes time to do applications, I'd put your first choice first, regardless of where you're living. But make sure you put at least one dead cert as an option to maximise your chances of getting a place. I've heard of people only putting oversubscribed, out of catchment schools as options and then being left with no place, even at the catchment school.

Sorry that's been so long!

trout while in discussions with DH last night (and while having a bit of a panic attack and hormonal cry!) we have considered it.

I just can't believe how hard it all is. I remember ye olde days of all kids just going to local school. Don't think our parents have it a single thought! Lucky them

Not sure if I have the right end of the stick but in my case where we live is miles away from our catchment area schools. When we came to apply for schools for eldest dc we put down the 3 nearest schools to us. However these 3 schools were over subscribed and not in our catchment area.
The LA told us dd would be going to a school that was due to be bulldozed, literally that was over 3 miles from our address and the site for the new school was 4.6 miles away.

I rang the LA and told them I wished to appeal and was told that I would not win an appeal. I then told them in that case I wished to apply for a taxi service as the school, not one of my 3 choices, was over 2 miles from my address and under their own rulings I was entitled to a taxi to take dd to and from school. They then told me they would get back to me.

Within 20 minutes I was rung by my first choice school offering dd a place. I know I jumped to the head of the queue because others joined the class after dd started at the beginning of the term who had been on a waiting list.

If you are miles away from your nearest catchment area school then the LA have to supply a taxi service. As they don't like doing this then in my case as long as I can get dc to school then I have got into every first choice school I have listed.

Really Olivers?? Anyone know if that would happen?i hav heard of the taxi thing but I just can't imagine then being bumped to the front. Would be great if that were the case because I am almost certain any school they gave me would be over two miles away