What do we think.....would this improve grades at secondary level?

[Verbena37]

I was thinking whilst chatting to two teacher friends today......what if, rather than continuing the primary (mainly KS 1 and 2 rather than reception), primary schools employed specialist teachers in ALL subjects?

I honestly think this could dramatically improve teaching and outcomes. So instead of a teacher, for example doing a degree in education or a degree in history and then doing a PGCE), they do their specialist primary subject (maths/English/science/French/PE/Humanities and music and then do a PCGE.

After that, they teach from year 1-6 only in their specialist subject.
Obviously many primaries already employ specialist language, PE and music specialist teachers but surely this proposal would be cheaper and more effective (for continuity) way of teaching.

Wouldn't specialist teachers from year 1 ensure a better quality of teaching ....especially in core subjects? I'm really NOT trying to annoy current primary teachers but just looking at an easy way to update and improve our state education system.

The two teacher friends both agreed that it was a possible idea that could work,

My DD could have potentially have been in your middle school before we left Suffolk......I loved the fact that they weren't c of e schools. We have no choice where we live, they are all c of e primaries, bar one.

If it wasn't C of E then they weren't at my old middle school. I've since moved to a non-denominational school.

My wiki references was just trying to illustrate to Suffolk the amount of facts I thought they should learn about each religion.....I wasn't suggesting they all log on to Wikipedia and read the synopsis

There's so much wrong with this thread I can't tell you. It somehow negates all the good teaching from endless good teachers for years and years that you are somehow ignorant of. Flame away.

Nope, could have been.

Sorry, that should have read nope, couldn't have been

It doesn't derxa. You've turned it into that.

It was a theoretical post about the way specialisms could be used more at primary level to secure higher grades at GCSE level.....some posters have said it does happen in some of their schools....so I'm not talking total rubbish.....and I'm not dissing teachers and their teaching.....I almost trained to be one and have done lots of volunteering in them.....that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion though

It would be interesting to see some research done to compare schools that don't and schools that do use more specialist teachers and then look at results in a few years time.

tbf it's not much more daft than the idea of a skills only based curriculum that was being talked about a lot a few years ago.

The problem with curriculum is that everyone has their own ideas about what is important and what isn't. So for every person that thinks something should be removed and both sides probably have a valid argument.

I'm not totally sure it's possible to massively increase the results at GCSE anyway.

That's true rafa and I might read up on that skills based suggestion....out of interest that's all. No more 'what if?' Education threads for me for a while

Really? I thought your HT thread went really well.

me too

You do realise that you can be a RE teacher and an atheist ?

And of course wiki is a highly reliable source of information ????

You can be an RE teacher and a Pastafarian and it won't affect how you teach!

My religion has little baring on my teaching except when the children ask about how it differs from Tibetan Buddhism when we study Tibet, the Dalai Lama and the Chinese invasion.

mrz
My wiki references was just trying to illustrate to Suffolk the amount of facts I thought they should learn about each religion.....I wasn't suggesting they all log on to Wikipedia and read the synopsis

This was further up.

Since we're talking about 5-11 year olds the amount of detail covered in RE is broad but not that deep

How much is 'very large amounts' NewStatesman. A morning/afternoon a week? Two afternoons a week?

Depends on the age, depends on whether this is an ongoing thing or whether a term or two is to be spent concentrating on plants and agriculture and learning how they work. As a "permanent" part of the curriculum, two afternoons a week sounds like too much, to be honest.

Which subjects do you think are suitably academic? I'm guessing art is out alongside gardening, cooking and handicrafts.

Not sure where you get that idea from that I think art should be "out"where did I ever suggest such a thing? Art and music are liberal arts subjects and are an important part of a broad and balanced curriculum just like history, geography, science and RE (or ethics or civics) are. Art and music are not just "fun"they are academic because they are about producing an all-rounded "educated" person.

As for RE itself--I think it's very important, and I am an atheist. However, right at the moment my impression about RE is that as a country, we have yet to actually decide what the subject is supposed to be about, and what it's purpose is supposed to be.

I would like to see all children getting the chance to receive a strong knowledge-based foundation of rich cultural literacy about religion. The origins of the world's religions from a historical perspective, the demographics of where followers are found, a broad overview of belief systems, texts and lifestyle practices for each religion, all interwoven with things that are going on in the news and current affairs.

I think good RE teachers are doing this right now (or are doing their best to, given the restrictions that hem them in). In some schools, though, RE seems to be either a sort of vague PSHE-style let's-be-nice-to-each-other-and-talk-about-our-feelings mush, or about preaching for a particular faith--particularly at faith schools, of course. Then again, I don't really understand why we have publicly funded faith schools in the first place.

This blog here made really interesting reading.

thegoldencalfre.wordpress.com

Everyone who has been to school has an opinion and think they are an expert on education. Sadly such idiots include politicians who think their experience at private school is applicatiable to all state schools across the UK 20 years later.

We need research to determine the ideal age to introduce specialist teachers. There are advantages and disadvantages. When children have multiple teachers it is harder to make sure that special needs are catered for. 15 teachers tend to skim read if they have 30 IEPs to read. If a teacher has to teach 300 children then learning all the names is a challenge, never mind identifying special needs.

ReallyTired

Everyone who has been to school has an opinion and think they are an expert on education

So true.

Hang on. I've been in a hospital before. Surely I'm qualified to decide on surgical procedures...

If you've been on holiday you could probably moonlight as a pilot ????

Your on the internet, prehaps you could make mumsnet safe from the hackers!

Education is a huge topic that I know little/ nothing about. The more experience I have had of schools and children, the less I know. I feel that there should be more evidence that some educational policy works before it is implemented. Educational policy/ ideas should come from teachers, be researched by teachers before it is accepted by teachers.

To quote Ben Goldacre

“This is not about telling teachers what to do. It is in fact quite the opposite. This is about empowering teachers to make independent, informed decisions about what works, by generating good quality evidence, and using it thoughtfully.”

www.badscience.net/2013/03/heres-my-paper-on-evidence-and-teaching-for-the-education-minister/

Making educational policy research based would take power away from the privately educated policitans and give power back to the teachers.

Far too sensible I'm afraid. Knee-jerk reactions are the order of the day.

Mrz...

We shall shortly be landing in Heathrow, where the local time is just coming up to half past eleven. The temperature is around 15 degrees. On behalf of the crew may I wish you a pleasant onward journey and thank you for choosing to fly Iguana Airlines today.

I've got this thing licked.

There is a shortage of well qualified maths teachers in secondary. How we could provide them in primary I do not know. In my last permanent post, I was teaching some children who were above the old Level 6. I could have done with some secondary teachers to come in and give them more depth and breadth whilst I helped the Level 3/4s. I tried to get help from local secondaries and one school gave me a parents help sheet!! So many ifs and buts. RE is the least of our worries.