Should I ask to move maths set?

[SurvivalGuide]

DS's teacher says his maths is much improved this year. He gets it all right, finishes early and then helps the others in his set to fill the time. Should I ask for him to move up a maths set? What's the best way to talk to the teacher? Worried DS is not being sufficiently challenged.

Surely if he's improved well then he's being sufficiently challenged!

DD's school doesn't have groups either - in fact the tables are arranged in horseshoe shape around teacher's desk. The class are taught a topic and then children given work at their level to complete. They can get easier or harder work if it's more appropriate for a given topic (e.g. DD is good at maths but has a mental block about time telling - so this means she can access "easier" work when they are looking at time and more challenging work if it's anything else!! I do think if you put children at ability based tables you run the risk of "labelling" them - even if as *DocHollywood" says they are doing work the same as on the table above but sitting where they are for logistical reasons.

Doc I did read. I just don't see much benefit in allocating children to particular groups in general. I also don't have set places in my class, so the idea of 'logistics' meaning I need group names/table names or whatever other label, doesn't really matter.
My class make their own choices about which task to complete, whether to join me for further teaching (support or extension) or whether to move to a more challenging/easier task during the lesson.

Imo groups only work well if you are flexible about group size and don't insist on one child having to be moved down before another can move up.

If you are generally giving children in the same groups the same work, but giving some children work from a different group to the one they are sat in, you might as well just let them sit anywhere and not have groups anyway. But that doesn't sound like what's going on with the OP's DS anyway since he isn't being given different work from the rest of his group.

I don't have groups for maths either, the children can sit where they want in the class ( unless they are moved for other reasons!) and select the level of work they would like to do. Sometimes I might suggest they try something a little easier/harder and -if they have chosen one of the easier levels and are finding it easy, I will ask them to move on after a few questions rather than complete all the work at one level. So asking me to move a child up a group would be rather difficult!

A good teacher will make sure they're challenged whatever group they're in. DS recently moved school and went from complaining it was too easy in top group across a year of 90 (and looking at his books it really was, not just saying that because he was out of his depth) to engaged and learning in a middle group in a class of 30. He did complain and get given the higher group's homework sheet, but as far as classwork goes they clearly have it covered.
I can imagine if op's son wants grammar school though he'd need to be in the equivalent of level 6 extension groups by the end of primary, and that extra material isn't taught to all of them.

Leave it, they will be reassessed next term.

If it's not different next year and he's still finishing early and helping others then I think I'd just mention it to the teacher casually to find out why. It could well be their way of assessing whether he's actually got it by hearing him explain to others. And then see what else the teacher says, if it's yes he should go up but no room at that table then you have a good reason to insist they make room. Or it could be the actual top set is tiny and down to the rare scenario of having 3 highly gifted children in one class and works at a level way beyond him. I was ill when my primary class all learnt long multiplication method and it was actually years later after using a long winded complex method I'd made up myself I actually figured out the normal way, all of which would have been avoided if anybody had asked me to explain it.
Whether you label kids as sets or tables or spread ability round the classroom they all know exactly each other's ability. And separating into ability groups for academic subjects like maths and English is a good thing.

I expect your child is quite young, in the early stages of primary school? in which case you won't have found out yet that the word of the primary school teacher is gospel, she knows your child better than you do and any questioning of anything that happens in school, however gentle and tactful, will be dismissed (if you're lucky similarly gently but most probably as if you're a small child being a little impertinent).

My eldest is off to secondary school in September. Hoorah!

What year is your dc in? At ds school they group them on ability, the more able ones in the group are given more challenging work then at the end of year 5 they are put into booster groups to try to help them cover the stuff they don't know and stretch them even further.

And separating into ability groups for academic subjects like maths and English is a good thing.

If you ignore all the evidence that it isn't a good thing and that children do better without it.

The evidence suggests that mixed ability teaching benefits middle and lower ability. And I don't subscribe to the idea any child should be expected to put their educational needs as secondary to the greater good.
Don't get me wrong if the 'setting' can be differentiated work with mixed tables that's great. But if it's not possible to do that then nothing wrong with doing it more formally in tables or going out if needed.

The evidence for primary is that setting may result in an additional month's progress (compared to being taught in mixed ability groups) for the highest ability children

There's also evidence that it can result in more progress than 1 months worth

Who's told you that he's finishing early etc. too. Because if it's the teacher then you should have picked up on that and asked straight away how they are stretching him. If it's him then there's possible a bit of poetic licence and you might find the reality is slightly different.

Of course one month is the average gain some might make 3 months and others minus two months

If a months the average gain for teaching mixed ability how do eg you explain level 6s in this years sats? In schools that got them teaching mixed ability did they teach the entire class l6? Too many achieve it in maths to say they all just automatically understood it on exam day having never seen level 6 work previously.
Also the statement they only gain a month is flawed, the more able a child the quicker they learn. It's also almost impossible to actually research given the bizarre g&t policy in place and the fact you can't educate the same child twice.

Our level 6 children are taught in mixed ability classes (we don't even have ability groups within the class).

So how do they see the l6 work beforehand if the rest don't?

Its called teaching

There are number of teachers and parents on this thread who have stated their schools don't have ability groups/sets. Do you imagine they don't have level 6 pupils.

Why can't you just give an actual answer?
Unless the entire class learns it then you have to use differentiation of some form whether that's work or tables or going out but I'm baffled by how they all just learn the exact same in a mixed group yet presumably achieve across the usual range

Why do you need to be doing the same thing as the child sitting next to you? Even in ability groups every child will have different strengths and weaknesses it's a teachers job to identify what each needs.

Right so in that case it is differentiation.
On a separate note glad my child went to a school they did identify what each child needed and were happy to use other methods as well as just differentiation when needed/ practical.

No it's not differentiation it's personalised learning more effective in primary than setting