Primary Maths teaching inadequate for secondary

[kazh50]

Just a heads up really. Maths teaching in Primary schools appears to be woefully inadequate these days. Throughout my son's years in primary school (rated exceptional), I constantly queried the low level of maths being taught even though my son was always on the "top table". Even in years 5 and 6, they were still languishing with number lines, the grid method for multiplication and division by using subtraction. No sign whatsoever of long multiplication and long division that I clearly remember doing in my primary school many years ago, nor basic algebra either. At parents evenings, was always told that these were the new methods and far better, teachers had no concerns with my son, and he left at year 6 with a 6 in his maths SATS, so we accepted what we were told. When I asked why long multiplication and long division weren't being taught, I was told by different teachers that it's no longer necessary at Primary level.

He's now just completed his second year at secondary school, and has suffered a painfully low score (under 50%) in his end of year maths tests. This is despite a 95% score in the year 1 secondary end of year test, and 80% plus in all other subjects end of year tests. Obviously, I've spoken to the teacher about what has gone wrong, who has told me that my son has grasped all the new subject material taught this year, his workings are sound, but has lost marks in virtually every area on the test because of an inability to do basic number crunching, in particular, anything that required multiplication or division beyond simple small numbers. The teacher said that this is very common as there's a "gap" between the relatively low standard at primary school (even to level 5/6 SATS) and the expected level at the start of secondary. Basically, at primary, they're only working with small numbers, ie typically multiplies of 1-10, so barely ever get answers of over 100, yet at secondary, numbers are often in the hundreds or thousands. With smaller numbers, it's easy for kids to guess or use workarounds to find an answer but they can't do that when the numbers are bigger.

Good thing is that this has now been identified and I can rectify the problem by doing lots of drills over the Summer, so he should start back in September fully competent in these basics. Such a shame that the teachers don't actually tackle the issue - primary teachers clearly don't think it's their job, nor do the secondary teachers.

My only anecdote is the number of trainee primary teachers struggling to pass the qts numeracy test.

I'm afraid I'm another one saying that we haven't encountered the gap of which OP speaks (DD is also at end of yr8).

I ruddy hated long division and rote learning it for hours never made me into a good math mathematician. Algebra was good. I never felt confident at math until I started algebra. A lot of the so-called 'new' math techniques I taught myself because I couldn't stand how bad my mental math was (after I finished university). I 100% HEART new math techniques.

Well this thread proves there are a lot of jumpy primary teachers out there. Why oh why get so upset about it?

Well there might be, but the first reply on the thread is from a secondary maths teacher so I wouldn't assume that disagreeing with the Op proves anything.

There may be things that can be improved about primary maths either in general or more likely in specific schools. But on the basis that the OP's son has done very well at primary, started very well in secondary and then, unlike most other high achieving children, has done badly in year 8. Perhaps the OP's DS and his maths teacher should both start looking a bit closer to home first, because the primary school are not the most likely source of the issue in this case.

The point about numbers to 100 is so laughably fictional it should have raised a red flag that the teacher might not have been being entirely honest. Especially with a child that was level 6 in ks2.

PP not sure on the relevance of your anecdote if they can't pass the maths test then they can't become teachers ????????

THese are the "old" objectives for level 6 maths, not a number under a hundred amongst them!!

Attainment target 1: Using and applying Maths Level 6:
• I can carry through difficult tasks and solve quite complex problems by breaking them down into smaller tasks on my own.
• I can interpret, discuss and synthesise information presented in a different mathematical forms.
• My writing explains and informs my use of diagrams.
• I am beginning to give mathematical justifications.

Attainment target 2: Number and algebra Level 6:
• I can order and approximate decimals when solving numerical problems and equations such as x3 + x = 20, using trial-and-improvement methods.
• I know which number to consider as 100 per cent, or a whole, in problems involving comparisons, and can use this to evaluate one number as a fraction or percentage of another.
• I understand and can use the equivalences between fractions, decimals and percentages, and calculate using ratios in situations.
• I can add and subtract fractions by writing them with a common denominator.
• When exploring number sequences, I can find and describe in words the rule for the next term or nth term of a sequence where the rule is linear.
• I can formulate and solve linear equations with whole-number coefficients.
• I can represent mappings expressed algebraically, and use Cartesian coordinates for graphical representation interpreting general features.

Attainment target 3: Shape, space and measures Level 6:
• I can recognise and use common 2-D representations of 3-D objects.
• I know and can use the properties of quadrilaterals in classifying different types of quadrilateral.
• I can solve problems using angle and symmetry properties of polygons and angle properties of intersecting and parallel lines, and explain these properties.
• I can devise instructions for a computer to generate and transform shapes and paths.
• I understand and can use appropriate formulae for finding circumferences and areas of circles, areas of plane rectilinear figures and volumes of cuboids when solving problems.
• I can enlarge shapes by a positive whole-number scale factor.

Attainment target 4: Handling data Level 6:
• I can collect and record continuous data, choosing appropriate equal class intervals over a sensible range to create frequency tables.
• I can construct and interpret frequency diagrams.
• I can construct pie charts.
• I can draw conclusions from scatter diagrams, and have a basic understanding of correlation.
• When dealing with a combination of two experiments, I can identify all the outcomes, using diagrammatic, tabular or other forms of communication.
• In solving problems, I can use my knowledge that the total probability of all the mutually exclusive outcomes of an experiment is 1.

But he excelled in Year 7 maths, so the problem was in Year 8. Of course the Year 8 teacher is going to lay the blame at the primary school.

I have taught maths at Year 6. My maths lessons are not what you have described. Please do not cast your difficulties with one school across thousands.

Probably not all primaries, some are better than others. DS's old primary school (he is now in Y10) didn't teach long division and long multiplication, because it wasn't necessary, apparently, for passing the SATs. His secondary school expected him to know it already. It was easy enough to cover it at home early in Y7 so it didn't hold him back, but, based on that experience, I can agree with the OP - maths teaching at his primary wasn't good enough.
Hopefully that's changing now.

Mrz they do pass eventually after a lot of tutoring and practice. They have little understanding of maths and therefore it isn't a surprise they struggle to teach methods effectively.

Personally I'd have maths taught by a specialist from at least y3 if not before.

So are you say they pass when they improve their maths knowledge PP?

Volvox ds has an A at A level and cant do long division, he is also gold at senior matgs challenge. They just use other methods , no idea what they are but they work.

I have a suspicion that the OPs DS did know enough of the "basics" to do the year 7 curriculum because some of that night well have consolidated and repeated the level 6 curriculum at primary school. The difficulties became apparent in year 8 and for a whole year there has not been sufficiently good teaching to cover the gaps in his knowledge. It is strange though, that the OP did not know about these.

Whatever the case, there should have been constant monitoring of his progress and attainment in year 8 and the OP should have realised there was a problem much earlier than the end of year exam. The OP should have had a parents' meeting earlier in the year when his lack of attainment and apparent lack of the "basics" should have been flagged up. It clearly is not a primary school problem and the OP should have been given the primary curriculum anyway, especially if a child is working at level 6. If I was the OP, I would be asking why his deficiencies in the "basics" were not spotted during the whole of year 8. Or could it be the DS had an off day in the test? What level was he working at in year 8? What are the comments from the teacher in his workbooks?

I have found the exact opposite: that year 7 was a waste in maths because they did stuff that my dc had covered in year 5! Secondary schools need to buck their ideas up.

It's a spiral curriculum. Of course they'll meet stuff again that they did lower down the school, it needs to be consolidated before they can push on.

given that the OPs child achieved level 6 in an externally marked test and given that level 6 is the expected level at the end of KS3 it's unlikely they had such gaps

My dc have been doing long multiplication and division from yr 3/4 in a normal state school, and can work with longer numbers so it certainly isn't all primary schools.

your post makes no sense at all, as most other posters have pointed out

what on earth has gone wrong this year and why has it only been noticed now?

Is it possible to get a level 6 in maths without knowing any algebra? DD did level 6 maths in May, I was surprised at how good she was at algebra when she practiced at home.

DS and DD were both L6s when they left primary - DS reached Level 8 at the end of Y8 and DD has just got a high level 7 at the end of Y7, as her brother did before her.

Both did long division / multiplication from about Y4 in a normal state primary.

I do feel that an argument that says:
Did very well in Y6
Did very well in Y7
Did poorly in Y8...and then says the problem is in Y5 / 6 is disingenuous at best, outright misleading at worst.

What is much more likely is that good primary teaching to L6 overlapped with the secondary curriculum for Y7, enabling a good performance in Y7 whatever the maths teaching was like ... and then the issues with the seconndary maths teachers has meant that there has been a big dip in Y8when genuinely new material has been covered for the first time.

From DS's experience, high Y8 maths and beyond actually has fairly little 'straight number crunching', and much more algebra and concept stuff. So the fundamental weakness is very unlikely to be in the number crunching.

It's probably possible to get level 6 without algebra if you pick up enough of the other marks. Like any level there's a difference between what those children who are working just within a level and those nearly ready to start on the next level can do. You don't need to meet every criteria to be awarded the level.

It's unlikely you would get level 6 in the timed test if you had huge gaps in basic number skills. And impossible if you have only been dealing with calculations between 1 and 100, since that's level 2 work.

DN1 left primary on level 6 last year, she's been calculating with 3 digit numbers since year 2.