Maths level in year 3

[Strictlyison]

Not boasting but genuinely looking for opinions of other parents with children G&T in maths. DS just did some assessments and has been judged to be 5c in maths, and he is in year 3. He is 'g&t' according to the school and so far they have been good at providing extension work, extra stimulation for him and we have been generally happy with the teaching. He has never received private tuition, and we do some work with him at home but nothing pushy, maybe about 15 minutes extra maths a day. His understanding of complex maths concepts is truly natural. I don't know who he gets that from- not me!!

So what now? What can we expect the school to do in year 4 and 5? Should we provide more at home? We've been thinking of sending to local comp high school, but should we start thinking about private/grammar? He is also good in all subjects.

It might be worth considering a grammar. What levels his English?

It varies from grammar to grammar school but generally the kids are 2 years ahead. Except in super selective grammars, where students often work 3 plus years ahead

He is 4b in English.

4b in English no longer exists so it's not really a useful assessment

Mrz, some schools are still using the sublevels until for this year, or until the new method of assessment becomes clearer. That's what we were told anyway. Is my children's school the only one still using the sub-levels?

They may be using sub levels (which never existed in the old national curriculum) and levels (that don't exist in the new national curriculum ) but they don't correspond to the content of the new curriculum so are pretty meaningless. I hope they aren't expecting Ofsted.
www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/335158/PRIMARY_national_curriculum_-_Mathematics_220714.pdf p18 onwards for Y3 expectations.

I will ask his teacher. Thanks for your nuggets of wisdom mrz, as always putting us back in our place. I now been properly told off.

Giving you accurate information is a telling off? ??

Do you mind if we go back to my original question?

It's a question about maths levels? Any help there?

Yes I've already posted the current curriculum so you can see what needs to be covered p18 onwards is KS2

Same situation here with a Yr4. After much thought, we're moving him to a private prep in September.

He's going from a class of 33, with a wide range of sbility, to a class of 15 with

with personalised education plans.

We just feel that he will achieve his potential at the new school.

It's been a tough decision, as his current school is lovely; but DS finds the work easy and doesn't have the self motivation to try very hard. He does as little as he can get away witth. The new school is very academic, and he won't be able to go under the radar.

My DD is y3 and assessed at a similar level to your DS by her teachers in maths and English/literacy. Given how well her state primary have taught her so far I am quite confident that they will continue to teach her well in year 4,5 and 6. What makes you think your DS's school will suddenly have a problem teaching him? As for your question about secondary school, surely this depends on what the options are available to you. How good are the local state secondaries? How good are the local private schools? Is there a grammar for which your DS could and would wish to apply? Which school would best cater to your DS' interests? Basically the same questions any parent is likely to be asking.

You say in the same sentence you're doing 15 minutes of maths with him a day and then state that his high attainment is down to natural ability.

Which is it?

15 minutes a day = that includes homework, set by the school, and he plays maths games on the computer such as Maths athletics (provided by the school for all pupils) and times tables, helping with any questions he comes up with, standard things really. We do the same with his brother and sister and they are average at maths. Doesn't your school give maths homework?

Nowfeeltheneedtopost, the reason why we are asking those questions now is because the gap is getting bigger between him and the other children in the class and I am not sure what to expect in the future, so hoping to get opinions from people in the same boat.

You need to speak to the school as the experiences of others won't help you much. There are as many different answers as there are teachers and schools as each one will do it slightly differently, ranging from excellent to worse than useless.

OP, is he at a very small school? In my DD's school, there are about 5 children (out of 90 in the year group) who are working at similar level (I.e. Level 5) in year 3. It is obviously ahead of national expectations but I'm surprised if your DS is the only one at his school at that level? I'm sure I don't live in an area especially full of child geniuses!
I wasn't trying to be difficult, you asked for opinions from other parents with children at the same level and I have given you mine. I honestly don't see why you need to worry about what the school will be doing.
Coming back to the question of the 15mins of maths per day you said you do with him, my DD's school gives maths homework once per week which takes about 20mins in total. So yes, to me as the parent of a child with a similar maths level, 15mins of maths per day sounds like a lot.

Dd1 is similar and is the same age. Her extension teacher gives her extra problems from the website below. It is meant to stretch her math thinking and get her to do creative problem solving.

nrich.maths.org/

She also loves reading about math - the recent favourites are Murderous Math and The Number Devil.

We moved her from one private school to another because our old school didn't do much to stretch her. New school is much better at it. I guess what I am trying to say is that the private school is not always the answer - they are all different.

I'd find out from your school what their plan is for Y4-6 for your son. And see what your secondary options are. At our neighbourhood state secondary high achieving kids are streamed and given much attention - as far as I understand from a friend with a son there.
Sadly, we have no grammars in our area...

Our local schools still use levels too, mrz, even if they're not supposed to exist!!

Op, your ds's maths is v good. Sounds like it would be good to think about a grammar.

Nowfeeltheneed --- I think OP is fair to be asking the question to her school about future years, and I'd say especially in Y6.

A friend's daughter is in Y5 in a state school. She since mid Y4 she has been doing her math work with Y6s, same this year. It is not clear what she is going to be doing next year, as part of the year would be spent on doing SATs revisions. And she's been doing that for two years in a row. I don't think there is a good plan for her.

Current National Curriculum, as I understand, doesn't encourage teaching more advanced kids material from upper years. They are supposed to be stretched sideways. However, it is not clear to me how this is meant to work in practice.

It's not a matter of "supposed" CQ they don't exist!

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/358070/NC_assessment_quals_factsheet_Sept_update.pdf

"Assessment reform
^As part of our reforms to the national curriculum, the current system of ‘levels’ used to report children’s attainment and progress will be removed from September 2014 and will not be replaced. By removing levels
we will allow teachers greater flexibility in the way that they plan and assess
pupils’ learning . The programmes of study within the new National Curriculum (NC) set out expectations at the end of each key stage, and all maintained schools will be free to develop a curriculum relevant to their pupils that teaches this content. The curriculum must include an assessment system which enables schools to check what pupils have learned and whether they are on track to meet expectations at the end of the key stage, and to report regularly to parents."^

They have been removed because they don't match new expectations

I think this is another example (the first being whether kids take just L2 or L3 test in Y2, or both), where Mrz's official line (and presumably what her school does) does not fit with what vast swathes of schools across the country actually do.

OP In your shoes (I wish) I would talk to the school about how they are going to suitably push your child over the next few years. There is stuff they could do to extend him sideways regarding problem solving etc. In year 5/6 they could get help from local secondary if needed. If they have been good at providing extension work up to now there is no reason why they shouldn't continue.

Also go to see the local secondaries at their open days June / July / September and have a chat. You sound like you are in a grammar area? Is that a 30% go, or a super-selective 2% go? If 30% you should probably aim for grammar, if not then your DC should still find peers at local school. Ask schools range of incoming grades, how they stretch the more able etc.

There is a secondary maths teacher noblegiraffe on the secondary boards who always gives very good advice regarding maths (and other issues).

No not vast swathes across the country ... Most schools follow the statutory requirements and those that don't eventually have to answer why not! Most heads don't flout the rules!

I'm not sure why the OP thinks her child's school will no longer be able to provide an individualised education to meet his needs when they have obviously done so up to this point (regardless of natural ability ... He has been provided with work at an appropriate level).
For secondary I would look carefully at what's available ... Talk to parents with older children if possible

His is in a one-form entry primary school, and as in all school some teachers are better then others, and this year his teacher is fab at differentiating the work for him, she is very experienced and he has made four sub-level progress (sorry mrz).

There is a grammar school a few miles away but it is uber competitive and children are tutored within an inch of their lives to get in, and once you're in it's so intense. I am not sure it would fit in with our family 'values' if that makes sense. Our local secondary school is good, but maths is their weaker point - they have a new HT so it might change. Chances are, that's where he will go. There are some excellent fee paying schools and we could possibly send him if he gets in, but then what about other DS and DD - we can't afford to send them all three, and they probably wouldn't get in anyway.

I think we will have to work closer with the school, they are doing a good job clearly but I am not sure exactly what they do. I suppose if we would have more information from the teachers/school or if there was a clearer plan in place we would be reassured.

OP Look at this link post Mon Jun 15 21:41 and a bit onwards. Probably too advanced now but may give you ideas/understanding regarding sideways stretching scope for later.