Is it usual to tell/ask parents before asking senco for involvment with a child ?

[indignatio]

Following on from the "My son is a space cadet thread" and having considered all the advice, I have cut down the playdates and we have started reading (me to him - no pressure on him) for quiet time after school. Board games are a special treat at weekends and drink with high carb snack are waiting for him as he gets out of school.

I spoke to his teacher on Friday after school (as it was the previous Friday she spoke to me re he space cadetness) and the following points arose:

1. She is amazed that he knows as much as he does already. From this I assume that she doesn't appreciate just how much he is taking in when he seems to be away with the fairies.

2.She asked the school SENCO to look at him and the secno just laughed at him. I am in two minds about this. Surely she should have asked me first if she wanted to involve senco verses how proactive she is being to get a quick informal view from an expert. Your thoughts please

3.She left him alone in the classroom today to change for PE as he was so slow - to join the others in the hall when he was ready. I have spoken to ds about this and he was not at all upset by this. Again in two minds - if it works to speed him up - great - verses, that doesn't seem the right thing to do to any child

4.By way of background : The children get a sticker if they have done something good during the day and their name goes on the wall if they have done something naughty. Ds's name has never been on the wall - despite the fact that he clearly tries the teacher's patience to a great extent. However, neither has he received a sticker in the last 4 weeks of school (with the exception of one day when a supply teacher was in). I would estimate that 1/2 to 2/3rds of children each day come out with a sticker. During this Friday chat, the teacher did mention something about ds helping his whole table with a game they were playing. Yet no sticker - perhaps she didn't want the others "helped".

Given that focusing on the task in hand seems to be the problem at school (together with not seeming to listen - although I maintain that a lot goes in) - how should I try to improve his focus at home - obviously without cutting into the chill out time etc

thanks if you have worked your way through all of this.

Shameless bump

I wouldn't be alarmed at the teacher talking informally to the SENCO. The SENCO can be a "best practice" resource, helping the other teachers to see better ways to reach the whole class.

Nor would I be upset by the changing for PE arrangement. There's a lot to be said for letting space cadets take responsibility for their own inaction.

I wouldn't get too worked up about stickers either. They're a motivational tool that work better on some children than others. I think they have no effect whatsoever on mine, as they can never remember what they got them for. DS1 and DS2 worked out fairly early on that, to maximise sticker acquisition, one needed to be naughty every few weeks, then good again. Fortunately they never put that discovery to use!

You just have to look at all the threads on here on the issue to see that quite a lot of children are space cadets up to the age of around 7 when they grow out of it. I would worry about what progress your son is actually making with reading, writing and maths, rather than what the teacher thinks or his "position in class". I don't know I'd try too hard to improve his focus at home, beyond ensuring he has access to a plentiful supply of Lego bricks etc., does the occasional small task such as setting the table, and is encouraged to stick to doing one thing for a time rather than just emptying boxes purposelessly.

Thanks Hallgerda.

I think he he making great progress with reading, writing and maths. I'm just not sure that the teacher is aware of how much of a positive impact she is having in these areas.

Any advice on how to get him to focus on one small job at a time at home would be welcomed. Standing over him when getting dressed saying good, now the other sock - is effective, but not teaching him to focus on the task in hand on his own. With the best will in the world I could hardly expect 1 teacher and 1 TA to stand over him being endlessly encouraging - they have 29 others to deal with as well.

just a quickie to agree that the SENCO issue is not 'an issue'. Totally normal in any school for teachers to consult the resident expert if they have any queries. It is not a formal process at this stage and you would always be kept involved if the process was to be taken forward to anything official.

Does your son concentrate well when he's doing something he wants to do? If he likes playing board games, that rather suggests that he does, and that the problem is one of motivation rather than an inability to focus.

On the dressing problem, does he get dressed any faster if he's aware of a good (in his terms, not yours ) reason for going out that day? Have you tried some sort of small reward - perhaps a chance to do something he wouldn't otherwise (I wouldn't dare suggest sweeties on here, especially before breakfast ).

Space cadets happen even in families without TV (yes, even mine) so I wouldn't beat yourself up unduly on that one. I'm sure it's a good idea not to have it on permanently as wallpaper, but I wouldn't have thought watching the occasional programme would have that much impact.

I think deep spaciness may take longer than 7 to grow out of ... I started to wake up in adolescence; was first really aware of spaciness being a bit of a hurdle to everyday life when at uni; & still have bouts of it now.

indignatio: egg-timers, star charts, dressing races with sibling or parent, endless praise for any initiative shown, special joke signals (instructions given by initials [eg "CYP" for "clear your plate"] or by opposites ["Do not get into your pyjamas, and whatever you do, do not come and tell me when you are not in your pyjamas. Ready, steady, STOP"]) are what we do.

If you have a deeply spacey one, even having to face the consequences will only work once it's happened a number (maybe loads) of times. Because, of course, the unpleasant lesson itself gets spaced.

Ds (now 7.5) does get himself dressed for school, without being stood over, more often than not. So there is progress.

Just mulling over this some more (spaciness is my pet interest) - your son is little, isn't he, indignatio? Reception?

I'm wondering whether it isn't somehow about a more slowly developing sense of "consequences" than other children have, and so whether games or activities that are about consequences as an idea - like, maybe, growing cress (= seed turns into plant) or Bucking Bronco-type board games (the more you load on the more unstable it gets until suddenly! it collapses) might be things I ought to have done with ds when he was littler.

Just mulling - ignore if of no relevance to you!

Thanks all

Bink, I really think you understand me (and ds)

Will try the suggestions.

On a similar note - it is difficult to know whether ds is listening to me as he doesn't look at the person speaking and often physically drifts away. I seem to remember one of the Child of our Time programs being about the difficulty children have in looking at someone when they are concentration on (say) speaking to that person. Can anyone remember at what age he did this "experiment"?

Bink - yes he is 4 1/4 - reception

Bink - DS1, at 8, has also for the last year or so mastered the 'getting dressed fully independently' thing. DS1 also was very like Indignatio's son in Reception (also a young 4).

Some of the spaciness is getting better in DS1, even at school, and his performance seems to be improving as he becomes more self-aware.

DS1's reception teacher found that little smiley faces or sticker charts, with the promise of something from the treasure chest, worked wonders. So he could get a smiley face for not being the last to get changed for PE, or for sitting still while reading (a real challenge...). Also worked last year for DS2 in Reception last year when he was being 'challenging' at playtime.
Good advice from Bink, as always.

Thanks for that!

Another idea - though he might be a little young for this one - but "turning the tables" can work too: he gets to issue you with instructions on getting dressed/setting the table/organising bathtime/walking to school, etc. Extra interest can be added by you acting dreamy & not quite co-operating ...

I liked what Hallgerda said about its being more about motivation than focus - that fits my ds, & probably me.

Thanks Bink - only trouble is he will set the timer to get me off mumsnet !

Any thoughts re encouraging him to look at the person who is speaking to him.

Looking at person speaking to him: another issue we've had.

So much so that I have a crystal clear memory of the first time I ever got the full beam of my ds's large grey eyes: and it wasn't when he was a newborn - it was when he was 3. I'd realised he didn't know the story of Hansel and Gretel, so I was telling it to him - and he was hanging on every word.

I think I've tried to encourage the eye contact that way - by making it worth his while, so to speak - as it's something where forcing it would be counter-productive. We used to play games to help, too - like "eye-pointing" where I'd look at something and he'd have to work out what it was I was looking at - so he had to learn to share someone else's eyeline. We don't generally have eye contact problems now, apart from when he's deathly bored with something. (And who can blame him there.)

Thanks Bink
I've just been watching ds in class ( I help on a wed am) and am relieved he is clearly not the only one in daydreamland.