Experiences of small village primaries?

[CityDweller]

We are thinking of moving from city to a village with DC who'll start school in a couple of years. Looked round the village primary, which seems lovey but small. As in, small building/ classrooms (although tons of amazing outdoor space).
Year groups are small (11 in reception this year) and they combine year groups in the middle years.
Kids, teachers and other staff all seemed lovey and happy. But I was wondering whether it would end up being a bit claustrophobic/ narrow for the kids. I really have no idea as this is the first primary school I've looked at.
Anyone with experience of a similar sized school? How did you DC like it?

My eldest son is at a small village primary (12 in his year). He loves it but we are moving him in September. It has no after school club (well - there are clubs for an hr or so like art/games club but no wrap around care, and we need that in sept.

We also have a few other concerns/reservations - as others have said sport is pretty minimal (not enough kids for proper teams).

We did exactly as the op outlines - moved from city to village and it was our only option. Wish we'd thought it through a bit more!

My kids are in a small school - 35 in the whole school from 4-12years. Where we live there is more sporting opportunities as all the small schools have netball and football teams and play tournaments against each other almost every weekend in the summer term. If you want to be in the team, you're in it. Both games are mixed sex so you see the same boys and girls playing netball in the morning and football in the afternoon. There's only one larger school in the area and that rarely gets invited to the tournaments so they don't have teams. I guess this side of it depends on what your area is like - are there lots of small schools or is yours a rarity?
Music - find out about instrument opportunities - we have visiting tutors.
Drama - again depends on the school obviously, but my dc's school play gives everyone a decent role from P1 up.
Socially it has been great for my dc, although I agree that it is more through luck that they clockwork peoplein their class and if there is a 'strong personality ' things can be unpleasant.

The strong personality thing is an issue in small schools definitely. A newly joining strong personality made ds2's year 5 & 6 misery (& the school were fairly hopeless at dealing with it). There's a strong personality in his year 8 class now - who has taken a dislike to ds2, but ds2 isn't bothered. The effect amongst a year group of 170 odd is barely noticed, whereas in a year group of 15 it made him ill.

No strong personalities yet in ds3's class, but if one joins I would move him to the nearby PAN of 90 school, rather than go through the things ds2 went through.

I do think that tiny schools can be idyllic - & having asked around a lot of the issues aren't really issues until years 5/6 - but I do think the balance that makes them idyllic can be easily upset & then they can become claustrophobic & potentially toxic.

Ds3 is still in, & benefitting from a small school but I am keeping an eye open for problems.

Thanks everyone for all these comments - it's really useful to hear all the pros and cons. I hadn't thought so much about the social issues, but I guess kids can struggle with that at any size school? I went to a PAN 60 junior and one girl in my class (the queen bee) didn't like me, so my life was miserable and my parents ended up moving me after two years.

In answer to some of the questions. This village school is in a federation with the next nearest village school and I understand that means they can pool resources and they also do joint activities and events (e.g. school trips, science fairs, etc) for the kids. They are also part of a larger association of village schools in the area. There would be other options if DC didn't get on at the school, e.g. other nearby villages or the closest town (5 mins drive away), but I suppose the appeal of this move is that they do go to the village school and we don't have to drive them to school everyday.

I'll find out about clubs and extra-curricular stuff as I forgot to ask then when I visited.

I have a thread running on her at the moment as am thinking about the possibility of moving Year 2 DD from our small, local village school to a larger school about 20 mins away. I'd like to get sorted before our 2yo starts. The experiences of the posters on this thread are so interesting because they highlight just how much variety there is in the provision offered by very small school and also how so much depends on the personality of the children involved.

In our case, it is not working particularly well. On paper, our local school offered a great deal- lots of lovely free outdoor space with own 'forest school' type activities, the Head spoke enthusiastically about the way all the children knew each other, and the older ones looked after the little ones, small classes, etc.

In reality, for DD, the forest school activities happen very irregularly as staffing is stretched to it's limit. The older ones do look after and play with the little ones but this does seem to prevent both groups finding their feet among their own peers. Our school is also federated with another local school but this has not really led to much in the way of the children interacting- it's quite sporadic. I'm sure there are other benefits to the federation though.

So all in all, we are finding that some of what we thought would be benefits, are not turning out that way.

Thanks patchworkhill. I've just looked at your other thread. Interesting that your reasons for potentially leaving are the concerns I have - that such a small school wouldn't be stimulating enough for DC and the limited friendship options. And just limited options in general.

But but but... Our current decision is whether to move to this village or move to a London suburb, where there seems to be much anxiety over getting a place in the 'right' school.

We live in a village and have 2 DC at local school. (One about to go to secondary ).

I think the concern about horizons and mix is valid, and is a concern I had, having moved from an ethnically and culturally diverse place to here. We get around it with a mix of extra curricular activity, primarily sport. DS plays for 4 football teams, which means a lot of juggling and travel, but also means he is meeting different children from different backgrounds and cultures which he doesn't get at school. DD goes to gym and Brownies outside school where she also mixes with different children ( although Brownies not so much variety ).

We travel a lot with them too. I spend a LOT of time in the car, ferrying, as activities are outside the village. DSs secondary school is two trains away. Think about secondaries in your considerations too, the time flies.....

I chose the local infants for my children which had a Pan of 60, now 90 and going up to 120 soon if the consultation is successful. My children loved the brilliant curriculum, drama, the music, (very strong in the local junior school), and sport was taken seriously.

Many parents from my tiny village (no school) chose an out of catchment village school with only 60 children. They then had to join our catchment junior school at year 3. It was very noticeable that they were much less confident, had not done any music and were rather babyish in comparison to the children who moved from the larger infants school. The junior school had a pan of 90. All the secondary schools around here are 1000 plus so moving from a tiny school to secondary is a challenge.

Having sheep around is all very "aaaah" in YR, but it is no substitute for music tuition, sport, friends and good preparation for secondary school that the larger schools can give. Also, some of the village schools around here are havens for SEN children and these children can take up a lot of time in a small school. There are many small schools where the Head will teach. Therefore it is a fallacy to think the staff have more time in a small school. Many Head's will tell you they are unbelievably busy with teaching and administration! Just choose the best school for you, but project forward to Y6 and then decide if it offers enough opportunities for your children.

Children can have social issues at any school, but when you are one of only 5 girls (as an example) relatively minor things can escalate more quickly. If there's a falling out, there's not always the option of finding other children to play with.

I went to a secondary where pupils came from a mix of village schools and larger schools in the town and one of my friends had never had a best friend at primary, which I think is a bit sad.

I'd also say sometimes being a big fish in a small pond because you are the brightest or best at sport can cause some children to struggle with the transition to secondary where they may find they're only average or slightly above average.

Re the big fish small pond thing, this has been proven to have more positive than negative effects though ( read David & Goliath by Malcolm Gladwell which show research into the very positive effect of being a big fish in a small pond ).

Yup, take all your points on board Sansa. But, the 'no best friend' thing can be as much to do with personality as peer group size. I never really had a best friend until I was a teenager (instead, I was always one of a group of 3 or 4 'best friends') and now as an adult I don't really have a best friend, again I have 2 or 3 women I'd say were my closest friends.

And that 'I'm not the best' transition can happen at any age. I was top at lots of things at my (medium-sized, very nurturing private all-girls senior school) where I was one of the high-fliers and then totally floundered when I went to a top university. I was completely unequipped to deal with the challenges of being in a very competitive and very hard academic environment and as a result totally flunked out at uni, which was completely against form and character. So, it can happen at any age. And I'd rather my DC learn to cope with it earlier than later. Cos, let's face it, very few people in the world are the 'best' at anything.

Thanks for that reference Theoretical I'll take a look.

I'm not sure it's about 'best friends' so much as 'friends like me'. In a big school with lots of extra curricular stuff too and afterschool etc every child can find someone like them - whether they are quiet, loud, sporty, book loving, musical, shy etc I see this in our 90 intake school where there are lots of cross class activities and friendships

No experience of sending DCs but I went to a very small first school (reception to year 4 and then on to middle school). 15 kids in my year group and my memories are of us all playing together rather than friendship groups forming. I am still really good friends with a few of those children now (early thirties). Having said that, we had middle school in between that and high school and so the transition was easier. My worry would be going from a tiny school to a great big one and getting overwhelmed and being underprepared.

Very true Mopmay. Ds2 is constantly making new friends in his 1000+ secondary. He just doesn't have an issue now with people not liking him. He really did struggle in year 5 & 6 - he was the smallest (physically) in the class & had different interests than the group. Ds3 hasn't had the same issues yet but his class is probably less cliquey - they seem to mill around & mix with each other better.

The idea that all children should have a "best friend" is a relatively new idea and possibly not borne out by the relationships most children form. Therefore it is not sad not to have a best friend at primary school, it is normal. It is also not good to have one best friend in case that friend leaves the area and the child left behind feels bereaved. Far better to have a mix of friends - as is normal! Very small year groups can force children upon each other because there is no choice. Parents tend to like the closeness of this, but it is not necessarily healthy and can seriously backfire when a child is not accepted by the rest of the children or parental cliques. This can definitely happen to SEN children in tiny schools.

Teacherwith2kids- I disagree about small schools suiting middle of the road kids best. My DS's school is tiny with bright parents. Half the kids got level 3's in year 2 and the others got 2A's/2B's. Our school is quite an academic hot house, although I had no idea when we enrolled DS last year. Strangely enough middle of the road kids are treated like low ability kids, while SEN seems to throw the school completely. I'm
new to the school and it seems quite friendly so far. And the clubs seems good- judo, cookery etc

But level 3 at KS1 is middle of the road. So is level 2.

Middle of the road means within the big lump of the normal bell curve, which level 2 and level 3 are.

It's level 4 and level 1 / W that isn't. With of course W being the hardest to cope with.

Like you said SEN throws them completely. And if your child is young you don't know yet whether or not they'll be a level 2 / 3 pupil, or have SEN.....

Level 3 at KS1 is NOT middle of the road! It is very good.

Orange - No school should treat the average child as low ability. It tends to suggest the school is not concentrating on the progress of all children. Perhaps because some parents, the brighter ones, are pushy they get more from the school because they demand more? That is not a good school, in my opinion, but typical of a small school.

My dc go to a tiny primary with only about 35 children in total in the Cumbrian village we moved to recently. It is absolutely wonderful. I guess most little primaries are lovely in many ways because of their family atmosphere. But they are not always great in other ways.

Dd (now 9) started in reception at another tiny school where we lived before. It had a nice cosy atmosphere but was very limited in its outlook - few interesting activities / trips, didn't stretch the brighter kids, quite slapdash in lots of ways.

The one the dc attend now couldn't be more different. The Head is ace and grabs every opportunity to do activities with other schools, go and do free activities at local places, residential trips etc. There are chickens, rabbits and guinea pigs in the school garden which the kids look after. The parents are really involved with the school. And the dc feel stretched in terms of work.

3 children at our 60 pupil village school and i love it. We're federating with 2 other school. Mixed year teaching works well for most...... and they do genuinely play together across gender and age groups. Children are mostly secure and confident. We are local cricket champions, came third in a tag rugby tournament (beating some middle schools) and field decent netball and football teams. They do well because everyone is encouraged to join in from year reception even if not "sporty" and tge children know each other really well. They can do brass or violin lessons. Sats results are good.
Are things perfect? Of course not. Friendship fall outs can be hard.... And it can feel insular and claustrophobic.
There are good big and good small ones too..... and a good school for you may not be a good school for you

Potatoes - I actually can't remember what the school said about y2 and level 4. But I know the school often has 4/5 level 6's each year which I'm told is good for a small school.

Not worried about my DS at all academically.

Milly I agree. I know quite a few mums who have children in year 8/9/10 and it was confidence building for the children to leave bottom of a primary school and then find themselves in a good set for Maths/science at secondary school

I get the impression the school I looked at is pretty well equipped to deal with both SEN and G&T students. But it's so hard to tell from just a visit and, of course, a lot can change between now and DC starting and during the course of their time there, should we decide to make this move.

Interesting comments about the challenges of transferring to senior school. I know the local comp (which seems very good from all reports/ results/ etc) is huge (1500+ pupils), but I think they have quite robust procedures in place to help all the children from local village schools (of which there are many) transition. But, even so, I imagine it would be a shock to the system.

I had a bit of a lightbulb moment about all this though. In that, if we move to the village and DC don't get on at the school there are other options nearby that we would get into (other village schools, local town), all within a 10 min drive. If we move to the London suburbs I imagine we'd be much more limited in choice (i.e. probably have no choice at all) as primary schools are so hugely oversubscribed.

Yes we had our pick of fantastic primary schools. Not a bad egg in the wide selection.

OP - I think your lightbulb moment is telling you to have a look at some more schools. You can get a good comparison then. 1500 is not uncommon for a secondary school. There is one of over 2000 fairly near me. It serves a very wide rural area and is very popular. Many go there from smaller schools. They do know how to make the transition smooth.

I think a small Infants school can work, but again, do you need animals in school to feed when your child is in year 6? It depends what you want really. My children looked after chicks in YR and wrote about them, made a model of one, did an assembly on them! A fantastic resource. They would have considered all of this a bit babyish in Y6!