Part time schooling?

[longestlurkerever]

Dd starts reception in September but she only turns 5 next August. She currently attends pre-school part time and an outdoor nursery (think forest school approach) one day a week. The outdoor nursery have sent an email asking if anyone is interested in keeping their child there one day a week after school starts, saying they understand it is parents' right to exercise the option of part time schooling if they want. They have said that if there's sufficient interest they will tailor the activities one day a week towards school-aged children.

I am quite tempted. She learns all sorts of different things at outdoor nursery and she is quite young to be in a classroom all day every day. I couldn't afford private schooling or home ed but I could afford this one day a week.

Does anyone know the rules around this, and has anyone any experience of doing anything similar? I remember someone at the school open day asking aid they could attend part time and the school's response was negative so I would like to know what my rights are before broaching it but have found no info on the council's website. I don't want to jeopardise my school place as it's a very oversubscribed school and we were lucky to get in.

Also slightly concerned about her falling behind at school but since it's all child-led learning in reception I don't think she would, as she will be learning outdoors too, just in a different way.

You will need to speak to the school. They are likely to not be keen as it's very disruptive to how they plan their week. They will do set things that day e.g. Library, PE etc
Do be aware that a huge part of reception is normally outdoor learning. All schools now near us have huge outdoor classrooms and reception are outdoors 50% of the time in all weathers.

I actually think the outdoor nursery are a bit off touting for business this way too!

Think of it not as part time school, but mixed school and home ed (which in this case you are subcontracting to the nursery). I think the term is flexi-schooling. Try googling that and ask on the home Ed board maybe.

I think the bottom line is that if she isn't 5, she doesn't have to be in school, but you also need to keep her place so you need to keep school onside.

At our school some children were PT for ages - some of the littlest were still needing naps after lunch - but our school prefers that they are in every day and leave early if they need to. And they like to work towards getting them in FT by the start of the summer term or something. But I think asking to flexi-school might be considered differently to people wanting their children to have extra playtime at home, so don't be put off by what you heard at the open day. No harm in asking, right?

Isn't that what private nurseries do? Doesn't bother me particularly. I had already enquired about keeping her there for a little while as school seem to think it's perfectly reasonable not to actually start till 6 weeks into term, while booting them out of pre school.

I realise it won't be the school's preference and presumably not the council's either, hence the lack of info provided, but my priority is my daughter's development and happiness. It's my understanding that she doesn't have to attend until she is 5, and even after that there is something called flexi schooling which ought to be permissible but schools get in a tizzy about how to mark the register, which doesn't strike me as a good enough reason to rule it out.

My DS stayed at his nursery for Reception and attended 3 days initially and 4 days for the final term. As a teacher I felt he wasn't ready for full time school, I also knew the negative attitude state primary's have to flexi-schooling even for children below the statutory age, I haven't come across any that will agree to it. Have you thought about keeping her in nursery using the 15hrs funded and topping up an extra day until she is statutory school age?

Ah thanks amateur. I thought I had heard that term somewhere. I will do some more research.

I would like her to start school I think gigglen. We would no doubt lose the space otherwise and I think it would be too big a leap to go straight into year one.

Unfortunately I live in inner London and the "huge outdoor classroom" is not a reality here. They have access to the outdoors but it's more or less a patio.

Can you defer her place until Jan (I think you have the right to do this and school would probably be keener on this option) and keep her at pre-school for another term?

I agree that it sounds like the forest school are touting for business and although the there is no reason to think they cannot provide activities for YR age children, they are unproved on this.

The key thing is what is in your DD's interests. You are responsible for ensuring she receives an appropriate education and flexi-schooling is legal and a mix might be right for her.

But you need the Head's agreement, and it will only work if you and both schools are all working together. Mopmay is right that you need to look at what the school actually does in YR and what she would miss on the day she was elsewhere, plus get a closer idea of their EYFS play-based curriculum and how much is outdoors.

Also, how would your DD take to being the odd one out? She'll be missing things that her friends at both schools are doing on their other days. Will any of her particular friends be continuing at the forest school, or would it be just a handful of children?

Don't worry too much about being August born - it's likely around one-twelfth of any YR will be.

Yes, unfortunately schools aren't keen on holding places. It's definitely worth asking about options such as delaying start until the spring term, or attending mornings only, or 4 days only. By all means use the term flexi-schooling (an idea growing in popularity in countries like Australia) I'd be interested in their response.

Thanks for all the perspectives. I don't want to keep her in nursery. Despite being August born I think she is ready for school and she is excited about it, but I worry that cooping her up all week might not suit her.

In fact she won't know anyone at her new school so she might like the connection of the familiar once a week while she settles in (one of her best friends is continuing) but of course this is guess work - she may love going to school every day but equally she may hate it. At the moment she does a mixture of things - pre school, outdoor nursery, at home with me and grandparent care, and seems to appreciate the variety and not be bothered about missing nursery on the days she is elsewhere, but maybe she will adore school, who knows? I could call a halt to it at any time though.

I trust the staff, the majority have worked with older children in forest school settings before and at least one is a qualified primary school teacher.

I think it's a shame everything has to be so rigid. I don't want to fall out with the school and haven't got the stomach for a fight about it but really think it could work well and be in my Dd's best interests if they were supportive. It doesn't really sound like they will be though.

There's no need for the school to worry about registration codes.

If flexi-schooling is agreed, they use the 'educated elsewhere' code for those times, and they count as authorised absences. As she would be attending another provider, who will themselves be keeping a register, it's straightforward in admin terms.

Having thought about it a with the help.of this thread, i think it's not so much that I don't think she is ready for full time school, but that I think it'd be a shame for her to stop experiencing the broader educational and physical development benefits she currently gets in the woods. She learns about nature, conservation, problem solving, use of tools, construction, team work etc. I know school will address these too but it's much harder in an urban classroom with limited outdoor space and 30 kids. I think if I approach the school it will be from this perspective so this thread and all your thoughts have been really helpful, thank you.

I agree the nursery is punting to increase its business, but it is a business after all.

I do think it's extremely unlikely that there will be enough YR children 'let out' by their various school, on the same day every week, to make a cohesive YR group at nursery on a set day. It's more realistic to think your DD would basically be going back into a nursery class for one or two sessions a week. If it happens at all, you will have to fit round the school routine, not expect school to fit round nursery's schedule.

Sadly, it's not true about the 'educated elsewhere' code anymore.

This used to be the case, but now it does not count as an authorised absence, and so doing something like this will have a big effect on the school's absence statistics, which count towards their Ofsted grading. All of which means that they are very unlikely to agree.

Flexi-schooling did used to be an option, but that nice Mr Gove changed the rules a few years ago and has, to all intents and purposes, rendered it practically impossible. (I speak as a veteran of this battle a couple of years ago, for almost exactly the same reasons, doing a one day a week forest school in YR and Y1. We slipped in just before the rule change but would never have got away with it now)

All of which means that what your nursery is saying is, at best, misleading, and it's very unfair of them to get your hopes up like that. Perhaps suggest to them that they do Saturday or holiday activities instead?

Sam Thanks, that's interesting. The nursery said they believed it was parental choice until age 5 though some schools were more supportive than others (one school supported it last yea) and after that flexi schooling might be an option but it was less clear whether it was parental choice. I might contact the council and ask. Did your dc benefit from it, do you think, and was it complicated for the school to accommodate?

Longest for various reasons I have declined my ds's reception place for Sept. When I spoke to the admissions dept of my LA they said 'no-one from Education Welfare will come after you until he's five' !! So take from that what you will. I also think I read somewhere that they can't fine you for absences until they're five. So I think you'd be perfectly within your rights to have her in school four days a week and at forest school one day. I am a sheep though, so find it hard not to do what everyone else is doing!

Kohl how does that work with funding then? My man at the LA told me the reason schools won't defer is because all their funding comes through in autumn, so if a child isn't on the roll they won't get funded. So what happens if a child is on the roll but just doesn't turn up one day a week before they reach CSA? I'm genuinely curious, coming from a private school background in N Ireland and experiencing state for the first time. I'm still coming to terms with pre school inset days

I think in an over subscribed school they may well say someone else would like the place 5 days a week...I'm afraid I think that would be my schools attitude rightly or wrongly. ..

"I think in an over subscribed school they may well say someone else would like the place 5 days a week"

Schools do not have the power to remove pupils for that reason. Yes, you need the head's permission, but there is a presumption that if the plan looks reasonable they should say yes. (I think I remember prh47 posting something about further tweaks to the wording to strengthen that presumption, at least until the pupil reaches statutory school age).

It's such a minefield isn't it? There is no clear guidance at all about what is allowed, what might be permitted etc. It appears that if I just go ahead and remove her one day a week nothing will happen as there is no sanction for missing school before age 5 and I could remove her from school altogether that's also fine but if I try and agree in advance a plan in what i think are my dd's best interests I will most likely meet with resistance and red tape. I think it's a shame and one of the things I am dreading about starting in the "system". I will continue to investigate the options though.

kohi. I am interested in your perspective. Why wouldn't you recommend it?