Year 5 ds future Year 6 SAT projections

[proudmama2772]

Ever feel like giving up.

With all the SATs stuff going on I'm thinking about next year.

My ds recent school report projects him at a 4b reading and 4b maths. Before the school year started, I was hoping he could make a 5. He was at a 3a and the end of year 4. They've done two mocks SATs and he scored a 3b on maths and 4c on reading in February. Still his projected reading target is 4b. Also, when they came up with new sets for science they put him in the bottom.

I had been doing some work with him - his teacher recommended some CGP resources. He scores 5 on these with me but we are not taking them like a test. I read and explain the questions to him. But I'm thinking, this is pointless. If the school thinks he's 4b performer am I just spinning my wheels.

I'm quite impressed with his mental maths and problem solving skills - but he is sloppy and lazy - and sometimes a cranky little piece of work! I haven't done anything with him for a month. I was doing about 2 hours a week, but since his school report it's almost like what will be will be.

You seem overly obsessed by levels (which your DS won't get on his whatever-replaces-SATS next year anyway). Of course extra work at home will help - the question is whether (unless he has specific areas of weakness that you are targetting) there is any point in it?

The other thing to consider is what his rate of progress is like? A sublevel in a single year is perfectly normal (a level over 2 years would be expected).

also you may find he "matures" in Year 6 - my DS has an almost unbelievable Y6 in terms of levels - it's like everything has suddenly come together for him.

Year 5s will not sit SATs marked against National Curriculum levels such as 4B, 5C, etc. These are not the criteria any year groups should assessed against as they assess the old NC and the children are all learning new NC, except the current Y2s and Y6s.
For new end of KS2 assessments see here and here.

redskybynight

You seem overly obsessed by levels

There is quite a big difference in a level 4 and 5. My daughter entered Year 7 with 4s and the school took her out of languages and something to focus on getting her maths and english attainment up.

I'd like to prevent the same for my son in 2 years.

AsBrightAsJewel

Thanks for that. I had no idea. Wonder how much the QCDA questions will change.

We have the new curriculum but no assessment criteria because the government has not yet come up with them. Your DS is already doing the new curriculum and this is more challenging than the old curriculum. This could explain the fact he has gone backwards but it does not explain how the school can give him old curriculum levels for predictions in year 6. Lots of schools use quite sophisticated methods to track progress but the old level 5 in year 6 has become more difficult to attain because the curriculum now contains elements that previously were taught in year 7.

Assessment and prediction is an unknown for many schools but I do not think his progress is good and if I was the school, I would be concerned at his slow/lack of progress. Ask them exactly what he should do to bridge the gaps between the old and new curriculum. With his profile I think the equivalent of the new level 5 equivalent looks a challenge.

millymollymama

thanks great post

Your DD entered secondary on 4s and the school took her out of languages??

I'd personally pick a different school!

My DD entered secondary on 4s and this week is taking GCSEs in both French and Spanish, and hoping to continue Spanish to 6th form.

Our secondary only drops some L3s from languages as far as I know.

I'm not sure I disagree with the school on that one. Her maths in year 9 is level 7 - based on mock SATs results -and she nearly got a B on a mock GCSE. Her English/writing is at a 6. These are much more important than being behind in a language. I think she is now a 4 in Spanish and 3 in French.

At the moment this school is my hero.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-curriculum-tests-changes-from-2016/national-curriculum-tests-from-2016

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/368298/KS1-KS2_Performance_descriptors_consultation.pdf

As I said, the final descriptors are not yet produced and, as the consultation says, should be available in the Autumn a Term 2015. This is causing no end of problems and is very unhelpful for both teachers and parents.

Schools should know by September the decision about performance descriptors as there is some concern that schools will use them incorrectly (as happened with levels) for ongoing assessment rather than an end of Key Stage summary.

Examples of the new tests should be available this term.

I think even under the old system, hoping to jump from 3a at the end of year 4 to a 5 at the end of year 5 a bit overly ambitious. Surely he has all of year 6 to reach whatever the level will be to avoid intervention at secondary level? Sorry if I've misunderstood.

One of mine is also a cranky little piece of work and lazy re schoolwork so I understand your concerns. When they get close to secondary its sometimes hard to stand back when you know they aren't necessarily putting the effort to reflect their ability.

I think the other piece of important info about the new curriculum is that where the SATs pushed for pupils to reach higher levels, the emphasis now is on extending the kn owledge ratherthan pushing the children to do a higher level.

There is a new curriculum so old SAt levels are redundant

The higher levels (old 5/6 equivalent) will be more difficult though because the curriculum has been extended to include some KS3 concepts - definitely in maths. There will still be lower, middle and higher achievers. There is more in the curriculum and it is more difficult. There is a lot more grammar in English, for example.

nobodyknowswhere

I was trying to get him understanding level 5 concepts (whatever replaces levels) by the end of Year 6. At present the upper 40% do achieve this in some subjects.

Sorry I got the wrong end of the stick.

You are confusing achievement with progress though, OP. It is very difficult, but not impossible, for him to make the progress you want, but with the new curriculum the jump is even more. Just because 40% historically get level 5, it does not follow they get it from 3b which is where he has been assessed at the moment. He may fly with the maths but the concepts build up so you have to be secure with the basics first before more advanced work is attempted. It is assuming rather a lot for him to understand the higher level work without being secure at the level 4 work. I am sure your school will inform you how they are assessing progress with the new curriculum next term and you will see what they are teaching him over the next two year.

Also bear in mind that secondary schools frequently do their own testing and assessment shortly after children arrive and do not, necessarily, agree with SATs results. This could be why your DD was asked to do a modified curriculum. Her results in secondary perhaps did not match up to the SATs results for, which, of course, children are intensively prepared.

www.risingstars-uk.com/system/files/free-stuff/Parents_Guide_Year_6.pdf OP

millymollymama

Just because 40% historically get level 5, it does not follow they get it from 3b which is where he has been assessed at the moment.

Just want to add he was a 3a at the end of last year. New school gave him a Year 6 SAT and he got a 3b - thus new level in February of Year 5. Same time last year he was working at level 4 extension at a Kip McGrath.

Just because 40% historically get level 5, it does not follow they get it from 3b which is where he has been assessed at the moment.

Personally I no longer believe the information on school reports because the level changes when they move schools. I prefer to find out - how well can he read, how well can he write, how well does he know decimals, fractions, percentages for myself. Because of the levels and the number gaming that goes on int schools, there is very little integrity in the data. My son get's a level 5 on the CGP paper tests, but this is not under test taking conditions. This is doing a few problems a night where I read the question to him and then leave him to it. He averages about a 10 on the mental maths.

What upsets me, is that the 2b he got in Year 2 is probably affecting the targets he is getting for the end of next year not his actual ability now.

As for my daughter, it was meeting with the headmaster before school started where he looked at the 4b and mentioned delaying the language. It was not after an assessment.

accidental 2nd cut n paste

My son (now Year 5) also achieved a 2B at the end of KS1 Sats (reading). He was a 4C when he left year 3 though and even his teacher in Year 4 said that she was shocked when she looked at his 'pupil tracker' as he'd progressed to such an extent. His birthday is the 30 August though so he had some catching up to do. I don't think the levels at the end of Year 2 are always a huge indicator or their levels for Year 6. A lot can change in that time.

mandzi34

It's attainment bands (low, medium, high) and Ofsted expectations of the school. They do a lot of projection between ks1 and ks2. booster classes for kids who are not getting the 5 but got a 3 in ks1. I know, I know - it is by no means set in stone - but it does happen unfortunately to a degree. Whether or not it is happening this way for him I can't say for sure, but it does happen. With the new level system it will still happen.

I probably sound really bitter and frustrated - I know, I know a 4b is perfectly fine. And if this is what he gets on his SAT it will be fine too.