Does my dd really need me to find her some peers?

[NoParking]

My dd is in Y2 at a good state primary. She has, since early YR, been in a reading group on her own as there aren't any other children working at that level. The school doesn't believe in children working with different years. For maths, she's on the top table but appears to find it all easy, though she tells me that another girl is better than her at maths, so at least there she seems to have a peer.

She has never made a best friend and in fact often chooses to read rather than play at break times, despite a lot of support from the school to find and make friends.

I've recently had a few different people suggest that it's bad for her to not have any peers who challenge her at school and always to be the quickest / cleverest (we've talked a lot about how she's good at academic stuff, others are faster runners or better at swimming etc). Others have said that perhaps she would find it easier to make friends with other children who are also academic.

I love her school and have no intention of changing it, but is there anything that I could do (or ask the school to do) to help her, both in terms of finding peers who are quicker than her and also in terms of friendships?

I would be far more worried about her lack of friends than "needing peers". A child doesn't compare IQ tests before making friends. I would want to question closely the teachers about why she seems to have no friends, to make opportunities for play dates (and observe the interaction during them), and to investigate outside interests for her to meet other children eg. rainbows/brownies or music groups or sports.

When you have more idea why she has no friends you can ask the school to intervene perhaps via "social skills" groups, and also to challenge her more, maybe via setting some open ended problems to challenge her more eg. How many ways can you solve 3x7? Or Rewrite little red riding hood in a different setting.

mummytime We've done all that. Lots of outside activities. Play dates. School has done various social skills groups. That's why I'm asking the question, we've done all the things that are usually recommended. And people who know her well have suggested it might be easier for her to make friends with children who are more similar to her.

You're right that IQ has nothing to do with playing, but things like concentration span and mutual interests do, and this is where she seems just to not match up with anyone at school.

My opinion is that you may find these very clever children you crave could also be insular. I think her personality is really the issue here and why would she mix with others, of any intelligence, if she prefers to read? How would the other clever children engage her in games and play? I have noticed that children play with all children, and do not just select similar (intelligent) ones to play with. They like the funny ones, the ones showing leadership, the sporty run around ones, the ones who like games directed by the playground supervisor or they like to sit on a bench and chat or read.

I do share some of your concern about who she works with and my friend's very clever at Maths child who went to Cambridge did work with a significantly higher year group. However, the important thing to remember is to make sure she is making excellent progress.

I have a feeling she will evolve to value friends. Also, do not wish her to have a best friend. If a best friend moves house, your child can feel like they have been bereaved. Don't wish that for her. Several friends is a safe route. My DD went to school with some exceptionally bright children who were taught in the correct year group (scholarship to Wycombe Abbey brightness). I would be more proactive in inviting children home. She does work with other children in the other subjects so she must have "friends" in the loose sense. I think you might find that as she moves through school, she fill find others she gels with and she appears happy. Be pleased about that because she is not bullied or excluded.

I posted before I saw your reply OP. I am not sure mutual interests really came into play in yr 2. It is more about personalities. Your DD is a bit out of step with the others but concentration span does not matter much in playground games and running about either. I just think she prefers not to play or interact with others at the moment. I think she will do, but when she matures in her social skills. Social skills and intelligence do not always co-exist.

I would say the school's organisation -in a group of 1 ?? isn't going to help. It's sending the message she's alone.
Are children ability grouped for every lesson or do they sometimes use other organisation?

They have different groups for different things - not all by ability (dd tells me). I get the impression that's it's just reading / English and maths where she gets the harder work, but this is all from what dd tells me, I would be rather embarrassed to ask her teacher.

Have you asked her about friendships?
Does she have friends? ... not everyone needs or wants that best friends thing. Does she feel different? Alone?

She does want friends. She seems better at making friends outside school - she does fine when we see other families we know who have kids of similar ages. Buy she'd like some friends at school who she could see every day, too.

She is a bit immature socially - can be unwilling to compromise, often wants to carry on playing after other children have got bored of that game, enjoys board games like chess as well as running around being silly games. She used to be very easy to wind up / make cry, but that's got a lot better this year (I think school helped a lot) but she's still either very happy or very sad, with not much in between.

Someone is always going to be the cleverest in the class, i don't think that in itself is a barrier to friendships. I think we idealise childhood friendships but in reality very few children have a perfect best friend scenario. If she is happy i wouldnt worry too much as it is easy to try to manouvere your child into a friendship they dont really want. However if she does want to make closer relayionships maybe you need to tell her to join in at playtime and not read. I have two readers in the playground and i have said to both its fine to read if they really dont want to join in but if they always read people will stop asking them to play.

Does your child play a musical instrument? My dd sounds a lot like yours and one thing that helped her become more empathetic, and therefore, better at reading social situations, was to start learning the piano.

She finds it really challenging, and has to work hard at it. She is now better able to recognise when others need help with something, or are feeling frustrated or cross and I think this makes her a better friend.

It has also had the added bonus of improving her self confidence as she has seen her skills improve through her own hard work. She still has melt-downs about practising it at least once a week, but we think it's worth it!

She's still not great socially (although it's improving). She still likes things to go her own way, and doesn't always understand why others might want to change the game when she's perfectly happy with it the way it is!

littlefish She does, and for exactly those reasons. She's picked it up quickly and easily and loves practising, so it's not quite had the effect I was looking for, though it's obviously good she enjoys it.

TheTrouble I think social stories etc is what school has done / is doing, after we talked about it to her teacher. Do you have any suggestions of ones we could use at home, too?

NoParking - how about something like Judo or Tai-Kwan-do (not sure how to spell it), if she finds that music comes easily to her?

She doesnt need friends who can challenge her she just needs a friend does she go to rainbows or anything outside of school where she can be part of a group and learn that way how to interact is there another child in her class she likes they dont need to be at her table or level just another kid she can connect with.

Mrsjayy She does tons of activities in groups, perhaps too many. She loves structured activities and works well with other kids in them, it's the free play in the school playground that's hard for her.

Oh ok so she is fine at her things just not at school maybe she is happier structured did she do muchfree role playing as a toddler or was her day quite structured

Im not sure what to suggest you seem keen for her to be able to play freely but want her to have peers that challange her where she needs to be able to just socialise casualy iyswim

From what you are saying she doesn't have a best friend but can mix socially when she wants and is happy some of the time and unhappy at others. To be honest all that seems perfectly normal.
I suspect being in a group with more academic children wouldn't change things significantly.

Your dd sounds like my older son. Clever, immature, and socially "backward", easily wound up and would cry easily.

I am sorry, I have no advice for you. He also struggled making friends, but would be wonderful and just on par with friends of our friends of similar ages, and at out of school activities. Maybe because they accepted him more for who he was, as we were interacting together in large groups of families with children, doing activities together. Like foraging for berries, having bonfires and cooking food, playing on the beach and in rockpools, fishing in rivers, lakes and the ocean, or just mountain hiking, sledging or skiing. Pretty easy to interact, play and get on with things in such a scenario!

He is in Y8 now, and FINALLY has found a group of children to "hang" with, who are like minded, share his interests, and of similar intellect. (It helps that he is in a selective independent where all the children had to sit exams to get in, and he is no longer top of the class, but pretty average! It took all of Y7 for him to settle in and "calm down")

I wish you all the best!

Sorry, Y8 in England (not sure where you are) means that the kids are 12/13.

She doesn't sound immature for a yr2 girl.
Other than chess & music, what are her interests?
I don't understand at all why she has to work alone for any subject except maybe music. Is her math quite amazing? For math, Our school mixes up yr2&3 and yrs4-5.

ragged She is at a school which groups by ability (tables) for maths and English, but doesn't mix years on principle. So if there isn't someone working at her level she ends up working on her own. She does have other interests, reading is a big one, but also swimming.

Mmm, this has been very helpful, thank you all. It's a much smaller problem than I thought. It's really just school play times. Weekends, activities, lessons etc are fine.

Since she's bothered about having a friend at playtime I'll keep working on social skills, with the school. But I don't need to get wound up by the people who, I'm sure with the best of intentions, feel she would be happier in a selective prep school.

Maybe buy them a copy of "The Elephant in the Classroom" which shows how mixed ability teaching can be used to stretch all pupils in Maths.

Can she join an Orchestra/band? She might not like it but it's the best way to develop musically.

But however great this school is, if there is the wrong cohort of children she may struggle to make friends. The teachers separating her for work may be isolating her socially, and that is why they should get her to work with others even if she is ahead of them - and there are ways this can be done.

Admittedly I have met an educational psychologist who has said being very bright can be another SEN.