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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Primary place with friends or outstanding alternative without friends

37 replies

gailsteeden · 30/04/2015 12:47

We have a difficult decision - DD has got a place at the same primary as all her friends from nursery, she's quite shy but has some really good friends at nursery and we know at least 10 kids starting there (neighbours etc). The school however has just been downgraded from outstanding to good. It was our second choice and we are on the waiting list for the nearby outstanding school but know no-one going there.

Her friends are all getting excited about starting school together but I am uncertain about whether to persevere with the waiting list or whether to just send her to the same school as her friends.

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plantsitter · 30/04/2015 12:54

Before my kids started school i would've said choose the outstanding. But actually, seeing them spreading their wings with confidence at a new school - because they had familiar faces around them - has changed my mind, even though they play with different friends now. I would choose the local school with mates.

SharpPencil · 30/04/2015 12:58

ofsted criteria change all the time. and so much of its about showing your data in a certain light, as a school leader. it doesn't actually always mean the school has got worse!

PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom · 30/04/2015 13:12

Well, firstly it has got harder to be outstanding. The school could well be exactly the same and now get good. And how long ago was the outstanding? Some schools near mw haven't been done for 7 years.

But also take ofsted with a massive pinch of salt.

Blazing88 · 30/04/2015 13:15

You know 'Outstanding' could just be that their paperwork is 'Outstanding'?

Seriously. I'm a teacher. I've worked at 'Outstanding' schools and 'Failing' schools. Some of the 'Outstanding' schools you couldn't pay me to send my own kids to. One failing school, I would send them to in a heartbeat.

Send her with her friends.

AmateurSeamstress · 30/04/2015 13:17

Neither friends nor ofsted would drive the decision. What do you think about the actual schools from looking around?

They make friends so quickly at this age. After a few weeks we couldn't tell the new children from the ones who'd gone with nursery friends. However if the other school would mean that she wouldn't MAKE friends with children in the surrounding streets, because everyone round your way always goes to the other school, that would put me off.

Saltedpeanuts · 30/04/2015 13:17

I'm also a bit surprised at your putting so much emphasis on an Ofsted grading. How much you liked the school looking round, what you've heard about it from other parents, is probably more important? I'd go with the friendship group - it's really important for a shy child, and she may not manage to replicate it.

BartholomewCrouch · 30/04/2015 13:18

Agree with Blazing.

Outstanding means good at paperwork.

Also many schools getting downgraded as criteria changed.

Go for the good one with friends.

tattychicken · 30/04/2015 13:20

With friends. Especially as she's shy.

CloserToFiftyThanTwenty · 30/04/2015 13:21

I 'd go for the good one - not because all her friends are going there per se, but because it suggests that is the local school and it is nice (I think) for primary to be close to school, going to the same place as neighbours etc

Tigsley2 · 30/04/2015 13:22

I would be looking at 'journey time' to school - that has been far more stressful for us than anything else.

If one is near/walking distance -that's the one I'd chose - as her 'friends' that she will soon make will be there. it really wont take her long even if she is shy .

PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom · 30/04/2015 13:23

I agree that a local school is far more important than an ofsted grade (assuming you liked the schools equally).

BreconBeBuggered · 30/04/2015 13:39

Have you read the respective Ofsted reports to see where exactly the Outstanding school got better grades than the Good one? The good one may have outstanding features in areas that are important to you.

I agree with those who say that much of an 'Outstanding' grade is down to paperwork. On the day Ofsted are looking for evidence of what the school does when they're not there, as well as looking at a snapshot day. Achieving a high grade involves staff keeping up with a lot of admin. Don't let that put you off if you really think the Outstanding school is a better fit for you and your DD, but all things being equal, a Good school is fine. If it's closer to your house, so much the better.

newbieman1978 · 30/04/2015 14:06

Difficult one for parents, judging schools is very difficult, of course the ofsted rating is an indication as well as the overall report.
You hear a lot of people talking about visiting schools and getting a feel for the place which again is very hard, I find that very difficult (as a parent) though my other half (head teacher) can walk into a school and form a pretty reliable opinion in 20 minutes.

Really at the age you are talking children tend to adapt very quickly, friends today are forgotten tomorrow if they don't see them. Our ds went to a primary not know anyone and ran in the first day no bother.

Take a look at both schools you may be one of the lucky ones who is good at "getting vibes". Read both reports and try to read between the lines. Try and judge which school is moving forward rather than backwards.

And if all else fails toss a coin

var123 · 30/04/2015 14:10

go for the outstanding place - she will make new friends once she starts school irrespective of whether your DD goes to the same one as her existing friends or not.

Saltedpeanuts · 30/04/2015 14:17

My DD had a couple of very good friends at nursery, and I was also friends with their mums. She went to a different primary (no real choice there, as they went private), and she didn't make other friends who were anywhere near as good, and nor did I. And it was difficult really to stay in touch with the friends who had gone private. I wouldn't assume that it will all work out if you separate her from her friends now.

NynaevesSister · 30/04/2015 15:22

There was no chance of son getting into the primary for his nursery, so following his friends wasn't an issue. We had four schools we were pretty sure we'd get in to. Although I looked at the Ofsted reports ultimately I went on the feel of the school, what was offered by the school, and also what the classrooms were like (my cousin who is a teacher gave us some tips). In the end our first choice was an outstanding school, but our second was in requires improvement. We'd have been happy with either (and the RI school is also now outstanding) although a bulge year meant we got our first choice. Our friends who opted for the RI school as first choice loved it there. Really, go more on how you feel when you visit the school.

SunnyBaudelaire · 30/04/2015 15:25

I would go with the one where her friends are going tbh.

TheRealMaryMillington · 30/04/2015 16:18

What school do you think is the best fit for your daughter and you as a family?

What did you think of the respective head teachers?

Which is easiest to get to?

Going with friends is a bonus, not a deal breaker imo. They make new friends regardless of pre-existing friendships.

Ofsted is just how things looked on a particular day, and gradings have been massively political of late. Our kids school has gone from Outstanding to Requires Improvement back to Outstanding in 4 years. Same head, same staff. Go figure. However there are s

TheRealMaryMillington · 30/04/2015 16:23

oops, some things that might particularly resonate e.g. - not pushing more able kids, not providing adequate support to those with additional needs

Original poster

gailsteeden · 30/04/2015 16:28

thanks so much everyone - if I'm honest I much preferred the outstanding one, much more progressive and inspiring (the other is CofE which I'm not - but that's a different conversation) They are both next door to each other pretty much as well so it's quite tough.

If she had no friends I'd go in a second, but what I can't judge is how important friends are at this age... feels like we are 'following the flock' rather than prioritising quality of education... that said I think from some of the responses above I should prioritise her happiness and social adaption, she's a bright enough kid that the education side should be ok! Thanks eveyrone for helping me make this decision!

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lastlines · 30/04/2015 16:28

Exactly what Blazing said. Outstanding can mean ticks boxes. It's irrelevant. Which school do you like best? Which has the ethos closest to your own parenting? We had a choice of an outstanding or a good primary. The 'good' was definitely more our sort of school. Very arty and crafty and musical with loads of extra curricular opportunities. The outstanding was lots of printed out sheets and putting infants through Govt paces with very little focus on the extras.
If you feel the school has warmth and stability and excels in the sorts of things your daughter is likely to care about, then choose that school, even if Ofsted says it's failing.

Original poster

gailsteeden · 30/04/2015 16:48

I should probably take ofsted out of the equation and say I much prefer the school which happens to be outstanding but don't know if I should separate dd from her (really close) friends or not

OP posts:

TheRealMaryMillington · 30/04/2015 17:15

In that case I would go with the one that your gut says is the right place for your DD. I would choose progressive and inspiring over C0fE with some nursery friends any day.

AmateurSeamstress · 30/04/2015 17:34

Coming back to this, I think the sizes of the schools might make a difference. If the outstanding one is big enough, you can more or less guarantee she will find some like minded friends if you 'move' her. Whereas if it's small, you are taking more of a risk on the social side.

You can trust her that she's a bright enough kid to succeed in either school, but equally you can trust her that she has enough social skills (by 4 year old standards!) to make new friends.

NewTwenty · 30/04/2015 18:14

Go with the school that you think offers the best education - she can still keep in touch with those friends outside school.

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