Supplementing state school primary education

[wantitall]

Reposting thread from my local chat group

Hi all,

My DS has been offered a reception place at n excellent state primary school for Sept , which I am very excited about. I initially agonised and toyed with the idea of sending him to an independent primary and finally decided on the local state school, which I really liked after visiting them. However, I do wanted to check in with all you experienced mommies on 2 things:

1. what extra curricular aspects he is likely to be missing out on at a state school that I should consider supplementing privately? I am thinking sport, music, drama, languages etc...
2. I am not sure how academic a child he will be, but I would like him to join a private secondary or a grammar school (i know I am thinking way ahead) and so any advice on when I should start actively prepping him for the competitive admissions for secondary would be more than welcome. My own gut feel is that I should just let him be at least till Y2 and enjoy being a child , and then start enrolling him for math or other classes post that stage. Does that make sense ? OR I am being naive about just how competitive it is out there?

Any and all advice is helpful.

All state primary schools will teach sport, music, drama and (usually one) foreign language so there should be no need for your child to miss out!

I have to disagree with spanieleyes. My dd is at a very good state primary, but the reality is that you do have to supplement it more than in the private sector.

E.g. All children are now supposed to be studying a foreign language - at my dd's school that equals to 30 min every two weeks - that is a joke and they might as well not bother at all.

Sport is also pretty limited - my dd does lots of sport outside of school.

It depends on the school. Many have excellent extra curriculum activities provision and clubs.

Don't over-do it with extra-curricular stuff in reception, they get really tired. Maybe swimming lessons if he's not already doing them. Apart from that, better to let him be and see what attracts his interest of the activities available local to you. Its best to wait a year or 2 before thinking about learning an instrument.

He will be shattered by the time he finishes his school day. Let him rest and play.

We're hoping for the grammar school but not planning to do any extra tutoring until year 5. If she's bright enough she'll pick it up quickly - its just for the exam techqnique really as she wont be prepped for it.

I've chosen a low pressure primary as I really do believe they should enjoy their primary years - she is progressing brilliantly though :D

Sport wise I suspect there are differences. We've just picked a couple for a hobby (and swimming) and let her choose. I'd like her to have an instrument when she gets to yr3 too... We let them choose though, I suspect child 2 will do less.

So much is instinctive though isn't it, as a parent that is "interested" in learning/life - reading/ chatting in the car, going to visit interesting places..... regardless of private/state school.

Watching friends' DC at independent school, they have a lot of options for after school activities, which our local primary can't match and the class time spent on enrichment activities can't match either. These things are offered from reception in some independent schools, but can only be offered to a couple of year groups in some schools due to the number of pupils involved There just isn't the time between 9 and 3.15 to cram in things like ballet, choir, etc.

My DD is in nursery and does a language, swimming, dance and music lessons outside of nursery. Hopefully she will continue some of these when she starts school.

Very much depends on the school. We are at an amazing 3 form state primary with tons of extra curricular stuff after school, wrap round and holiday sports camps. Urban area. Some receptions DC do nothing as too tired. Mine and their friends do tons of stuff, in and out of school - sports, theatre, dancing, martial arts etc

He is 4! Starting school is a big deal. My advice is not to start extra-curricular stuff until after christmas at the earliest. And it is way too early to be assessing abilities. My eldest is in Y3 and many of the most able, best readers, extension-group-for-everything children are not those you'd have picked out from YR. By Y6 I guess it'll swap around again.

I made the mistake of over-scheduling my eldest. She started YR doing swimming, football and an evening of after schoolclub (childcare). This was way more than she could handle, even though she loved doing them all as a preschooler. Many meltdowns later, I learned my lesson and my younger one did only the after school club at first, then we added one Sat morning activity at, I think, Easter. Just let your DS settle into school for now.

Just wanted to comment on your 2) ---
It's best to understand from the parents of older children in your area who went from state primary to private secondary or grammar. They could give you better advice on how to best supplement your specific school's education.

It'll all depend on how your child is doing AND on how competitive your preferred schools' entry is.

In Central London prep schools - most of the learning/prepping/tutoring happens during Y5 - for the 11+ exam in Y6.

It's not necessarily the case that Reception children are not fit for anything but school.

I'm not sure if you mean just Reception, but DSs prep have offered the following extra curricular activities each week to the YRs; gymnastics, ballet, choir, recorder group, science club, circus skills, tennis, forest school, golf, tennis, craft club, cookery club, individual music tuition.

DS does 4 of these a week (2 at lunch time, 2 after school). They take them swimming once a week in curriculum time but he also has a swimming lesson out of school and has another sports lesson and he's completely fine!

We plan to have a tutor for him from around the middle of Y4.

I don't think OP is asking what activities to do in reception year, but what to look at as likely to need additional input over tall the primary years.

Sport: you may well want to add clubs to the sports your DC shows an interest in. And for anyone who wants to train seriously, a club is almost certainly better than school (and you'll find pupils from both sectors in them). If you think they're not active enough at school, then find time to go out with them and have fun together.

Music: one to on tuition is limited in state sector and is a paid extra in private schools (the only advantage being that lessons are fitted in to the school day thus easing your admin a bit. But teachers who don't visit the school might be more flexible

Drama: don't know much about clubs outside school (my DC never interested)

Academic: don't even think about it until well into KS2. Until then, go for a varied, stimulating life with lots of visits to interesting places and good conversations. Look out for workshops at museums/galleries/stately homes etc.

CharlesRyder - your child is in a prep school and you're going to get a tutor in the middle of y4? Isn't that what you're paying a five-figure sum to avoid?

It always seems shocking to me that people would pay for a tutor on top of fees (and then let the prep school brag about their leavers' destinations on their websites).

That's why tutors distort all the data. That happens in state too. In Grammar areas a lot of the DC have a tutor and additional hired support at home. Local state schools have high SATs and claim high levels of grammar entry ....
I agree with CharlesR though. My DC walk to school, were doing afterschool or an extra curricular every night (state) and three sporty things at the weekend. Then playing out at park or on bikes etc the rest of the time. This was age 4. About 30% of the class were the same. Lots did or do 3-5 activities a week and a few only 1-2

If you are in a state primary, and want to send your child to a selective secondary school in the London area, expect to supplement.

We live in outer London and the tutoring traditionally started in year 5. It seems to be creeping into year 4 now. Perhaps to secure tutors, more than anything else. That said, we started the summer before year six, and it worked out ok. It was a little stressful though. I wouldn't recommend waiting that long.

All these selective tests are "knock out tournaments," not "qualifying exams." They have limited spaces and an abundance of able children. So if you want one of the most "elite" schools, prepare for an endurance test, even if your child is naturally bright.

Also, looking around, I notice that prep school kids are using tutors too.

As for the non-academic stuff, you will probably have to run your child around after school to dance, drama, tennis, swimming, gymnastics, football, hockey, etc. State primary schools offer some of this, but at our school (a leafy, honey pot CofE school) they cannot offer enough for everyone. There are children who would like a chance at cross country, netball, tag rugby etc. but don't get chosen. They can only run one team because it is all done on a volunteer basis. So many children who would like to participate are let down.

From age 3 my children had swimming lessons which were only provided in year 6 at primary. They also had piano lessons from age 6 and one did dance from age 5. They both did Brownies. One learnt the violin at state primary and played in a county string group and also joined the music centre choir. Singing has been contunued into adulthood. The dancer only stopped when she took her A levels. They didn't do much sport at primary nor a language unfortunately. I would definitely do these if your child is interested.

Wow.. thanks all for the very helpful comments. We live in an area where my DS will be competing for the limited number of places at the super selective Sutton and Kingston grammar schools. And I already know, that most of the children going to independent schools around us are being tutored at a very early age, primarily because they need to be able to crack the 7+ assessments too. So most of his cohort are quite used to the whole rigmarole of being coached and prepped towards a specific exam from a very early age. I purposely choice to avoid that as personally, I would not want my DS to go through the pressure when he is so young. And hence chose the more relaxed but Outstanding rated state school environment, where he can spend the early years just getting into formal education rather than prepping for a specific milestone. And from most comments here, I think my plan of leaving any formal tutoring or academic supplementing till about late Y3 or Y4 seems to be ok . If he is bright enough, that should be plenty of time to give him a good shot at the 11+ grammar exams.

As for extra curriculars, I do think he will be able to cope with a lot more than school at the reception age. From under the age of 1, he has been at a private nursery from 8:00 to 6:00 on most days and does football, tennis, ballet & swimming in addition (some on weekends, some at the nursery) and definitely doesn't tire out by the schedule .. although I have to say I am exhausted lol !! I can see him wanting to do more than 8:45am to 3:15 pm everyday.

So, the suggestions here for the other activities and also general family outings to interesting places do make a lot of sense to me. I will wait to see what the school offers and then choose to supplement that accordingly.

On Music specifically, does anyone have any suggestion about how to pick the right instrument for your child ? As far as I can see, DS loves music and rhythm, but that may not mean he would like the violin or piano or guitar necessarily. Anyone aware of general music classes in the London area (we are south-west) which exposes kids to a variety of instruments and tries to get a sense of what could be more interesting to them?...

Ooops.. Sorry for the super-long post ..

Fair enough.

Slightly random suggestion but I think tap dancing is great for developing music and rhythm. There's a lot of listening to the music and clapping, lots of attention to the beat and more movement than in ballet. I thought it would be too hard for a 4 year old but it's not, they build it up nicely. No substitute for an instrument but might be a fun stopgap if he already enjoys ballet.

thanks AmateurSeamstress.. that is not something I had thought about.. Definitely worth considering.

My dds didn't tire in nursery all day but did find starting school tiring, I wouldn't underestimate how tiring it is for them. I wouldn't stop any activities you are already doing but wouldn't start any new ones either.
Things they don't do in reception at our school are learning musical instruments, swimming, 'proper' sports eg tennis, football etc, foreign languages. So any of those would be extra curricular.
Bear in mind it is performance at 11+ that will determine access to the grammar not ballet, swimming, chess, guitar etc

I found with my kids it was obvious that DS, who needed a 2-3 hour nap right up to school age, would not be doing extra curricular in yr r. Whereas DD could cope with much more, coming home from nursery at 6pm after no nap but still full of energy, was able to do swimming/ sport/ music etc without being overtired.

I thought my daughter would be knackered by the end of the school day, actually I found that she was full of physical energy, though mentally tired. She now does several sporting/drama activities after school (in year 1) and really enjoys them, as well as piano. I am strict on bedtime though!

My dcs are at a state primary, eldest is off to a part selective secondary this year and did well in the entrance test. I would say:

They will be more tired than you think in Reception. Far more than nursery.

I started working with dc towards secondary tests very slowly (20 mins per week) from easter year 4.

We did swimming from Easter in Reception. Tennis and sport clubs from Year 1. Chessfrom end of Year 2. Piano between year 2/3.

I think it is good to have a sport, an instrument, and in due course a language.

What I do find, though, is that free imaginative play is the most valuable thing we do. I am convinced it is the key, particularly in infants and year 3 & 4. Your dc will benefit more from that than clubs and lessons.