Primary school place shortage in Crouch End September 2015

[cgehansen]

Hi, Has anyone been affected by the shortage of primary school places in Crouch End? We put the 6 closest schools to us by distance on our form which are Weston Park Primary, Rokesly Infant, Coleridge Primary, St Aidan's, Ashmount Primary and Campsbourne Infant. We've been turned down from all of them and instead have been offered a school in Wood Green which is a 48 minute walk away. I know of at least 5 others in the same situation.

I'm trying to get a group of us together to take this up with the Council so if you are in the same boat or know somebody else in this situation in Crouch End it would be great to hear from you. Only in large numbers can we make the Council take notice.

[GreenEggsAndNaiceHam]

How far into Wood Green is the school you have been allocated? is it a massive pain to get to? Does it feel completely end of the worldish? Could you contact some parents of children that go there and see what they think?

There is one called Alexander Primary that's nearish CE as the crow flies-that's the one I was tiny inking of earlier. I've only looked around the outside but know the area readonably well. At least it's near the train station if that helps with work?

I feel for you, I really do.

[christinarossetti]

And do continue to lobby the council.

They will try to establish bulge classes if possible, but it sounds from what other posters have said that there may not be any current school in CE that it's possible to extend, as so much extension has happened in recent years.

[Vinorosso74]

Only a thought, as you're in Crouch End and near the borough border, are you able to go for any Islington schools/go on waiting lists for along with Haringey (you mentioned Ashmount).There is a lot of movement from them. My DD is in reception at one of the most oversubcribed and two kids left at Xmas and only one place was taken. I've heard of two children being offered higher choice schools way after Xmas too. I realise this would mean waiting a term but just a thought.

[NorthLondonMama]

DC is at Coleridge after being on the waiting list (although it is by far the closest school for us). Anyway

[NorthLondonMama]

Sorry pressed a button...

Anyway, I've met quite a few families in DC's year that live in Bounds Green. I also know a few houses with flats where the turnover of families seems extraordinary high.

[avel]

We're about 0.4 from Coleridge (and Ashmount) - DS has been on waiting list (year 2) all year but no movement, DD applied for Reception but is a long way down the waiting lists :/ she's been offered Whitehall Park, he's being home schooled while we wait (also on a couple other waiting lists but those are the ones nearest us by far).

[cgehansen]

We're 30 on the ashmount list. There are at least 7 of us in hornsey vale without a place anywhere in hornsey/crouch end.

[nlondondad]

A few years ago Stroud Green Schol was under a bt of a cloud, and was undersubscribed. New head, Haringey put resources in, and, so I understand, a significant improvement.

A couple of other comments:

Dido, its not the moving into an area and buying or renting that causes the issue, its moving in for a short time getting the first child in, then moving away and using sibling preference that is the problem.

On the Coleridge catchment, actually the first year they went up to 120 the catchment expnded a lot, as you would expect. From memory its eight years or so ago now, it went as far as Archway roundabout in Islington...

[cgehansen]

I do think there is an element of bad planning in all of this although I know it's all to easy to blame the council and I'm sure diverting money to free schools in places where there isn't a shortage doesn't help. The council have predicted a shortfall this side of the borough for years now and there has been some expansion in places but obviously not enough. We've had bulge years to patch the problem up but that's just caused issues in later years because of the sibling priority. Weston Park had temporary bulge years in 2012 and 2013 and because of the sibling priority it only offered 6 places on distance this year and 5 last year (usually it's around 15) so hardly anyone in the local area got in and we are too far away from any other Hornsey school to get a place somewhere else. If there were more permanent expansions there'd be less of a problem. And it's not just a problem at primary level. I know the council have a statutory duty to offer places within the borough but a school place offered in Tottenham just because it happens to form part of Haringey is not a viable option for many people in Crouch End not least because it would take almost an hour to walk there. The moving close to a school temporarily to get a place does seem to happen a lot. I even heard of one couple who faked a divorce so one of them could rent a flat near their preferred school.

[lollyloll]

Just curious. Why don't they just try and improve the schools in the East of the Borough rather than making bulge classes in the West? Surely that would be the simplest solution and ensure that all kids in Haringey get a good education, not just those in the wealthy areas? What is actually wrong with the schools in the East of the Borough?

[cgehansen]

I'm assuming it's just that there are too many places for to few children in some areas of Haringey. There's nothing wrong with the schools that have spare places as far as I know but I've not looked into them in any detail.

[christinarossetti]

The schools in the east of the borough are largely good, many excellent, especially considering the complex intake that many of them have.

There's nothing 'wrong' with them per se. It's a longish way for people in an urban area to travel to primary school (although taking a bus would be more sensible than walking, I would have thought). Although, having said that, many people do travel for primary school (all the children shipped into Coleridge according to pp, and certainly families in temporary accommodation who keep getting moved in the east of the borough).

Tbh, I'm not sure that many people in CE travel to to the east of the borough regularly - it 'feels' further away than it actually is.

I suspect that most of the CE families who want a 'local school' would be happier to travel to Highgate/Muswell Hill rather than east.

Distance isn't just measurements on a map...

[cgehansen]

I agree about Tottenham feeling further from CE than it really is. The railway line dividing the two doesnt help or make it a pleasant walk. Haringey ladder feels closer I guess because you can easily walk there via quernmore road. And it must be a nightmare for families in temporary accommodation.

[christinarossetti]

If you're in Stroud Green, it might be worth getting on the waiting lists for the schools on the ladder. Both are good, although there's more movement in North Harringay school than South Harringay school.

[cgehansen]

Thanks we have thought about that. It's a bit of a gamble on who has the shortest and fastest moving waiting list.

[matchingmoll]

The idea that the walk from CE to Tottenham is not a "pleasant" one because of the railway line is hilarious. The tangible horror some have at the idea of going to a school on the other side of the borough (even probably one of the many good ones) can't be explained/justified by fear of a walk/bus journey/ let's-be-honest drive. I suspect there are parents who would drag their kids 50 miles uphill backwards on a 2-tonne sled every morning if it meant them going to Coleridge, but are suddenly very upset and confused at the thought of a short bus journey.

[london]

I have had two kids go through Stroud Green (the youngest left two years ago but I am still in contact with the school). It is a socially and ethnically mixed school which I think is a huge plus. It gets good results has a stable staff team (the 'new' head has been there at least ten years!), and is a caring school. It has long been perceived as the poor relation to the more middle class CE schools. If I had another primary school age child I would be happy to send them there. But the best advice is always to go and look round yourself.

[nlondondad]

@London

My apologies. Its a reminder of how a school reputation can lag, as its only in the last few years that I have been hearing good things about Stroud Green. But no doubt, as you suggest, the improvement started before then.

[cgehansen]

The Crouch End school place shortage made it onto the news tonight. That's not me by the way!

[londonkids]

I had to buy a house opposite an oversubscribed crouch end school to get a place for my children and I have just put it on the market and I suspect someone who needs a school place this year will probably buy it as there seem to be so many siblings and so few places.

[cgehansen]

If that's the house I think it is we looked at one a few doors up but made the mistake of buying 160 metres from the same school. In fact we're only 120 metres from the edge of the grounds. We're 5th on the waiting list and the council said there's 'no chance' of getting in.

[londonkids]

I know a couple of mums who took the places at St Marys and then in Year 1 and Year 2 got places at Coleridge and St Peter's if that helps that at the larger CE schools places do come up later in infants.

[northernlight1]

I'm a bit late on this thread but just had my own Crouch End "cut-off zone" wake-up call. DD not due to go to school for a couple of years but have a keen eye on these admission areas. Our house has always comfortably been in the Coleridge zone and borderline Rokesly but on the new 2015 data released by Haringey it looks as though we are now out of both.

I've done a bit of data mining not only in Haringey but also in Islington, Hackney and Camden. Here are some facts...

• Cut-off areas for Coleridge and Rokesly (210 places combined!) shrank by 44% and 52% this year. That's a huge unprecedented shrinkage from previously very stable levels.

• This was purely a Crouch End phenomena as Muswell Hill areas widened.

• Coleridge now has the tightest cut-off zone in the 4 boroughs I mentioned (aside from a handful of single form entry schools with v high sibling content) with 30 children being offered on distance per 0.1 square mile. As a guide very popular schools tend to have 20 children on this measure so Coleridge is off the scale.

Haringey needs to wake up to the seriousness of this issue and recognize how popular some of its schools are. There are 2 objectives I think would help a lot and that can be achieved through lobbying.

1. Deterrent and more effective policing for rogue short-term renters in cut-off zones. Not only is this practice very immoral it's actually against Haringey rules,

"We can’t accept a temporary address if you still
possess a property that was previously used as a
home address; nor will we accept a temporary
address if it is used solely or mainly to obtain a
school place"

Fairly strong wording but Hackney and Wandsworth go a lot stronger. Also it is tucked away in the admissions brochure whereas Camden have it plastered on the admissions home page with bells and whistles attached (ever since the Eleanor Palmer story in the Standard). I'll be nice and give the average parent the benefit of the doubt that they don't realize how wrong this practice is. A sterner more visible deterrent would help relieve the cut-off zone pressure and it would be very easy for them to implement.

1. Pushing Haringey to adopt the same sibling constraints brought in by Wandsworth this year. You are entitled to move out of a tiny catchment area but if you move more than say half a mile from the school then siblings will not qualify. This would do a lot to help ease the first point also.

Extra classes and extra schools are obviously the long-term solution to the primary place shortages but they take time. These 2 points should be achievable at the flick of a switch (albeit an LEA switch) with sufficient lobbying and I think would make a big difference in allowing kids to walk to their local school.

cgehansen if you are still in your predicament and in contact with Haringey then I would be very keen to help. It's dawning very quickly on me how big a life event getting your first child into a London school is and I'm very worried the application system isn't up to scratch.

[cgehansen]

I'm sorry to say that Haringey seem to have no interest in the issue. As far as they are concerned they have fulfilled their statutory duty to offer a reception school place within 2 miles of the child's home and say there is no presumption that a child should get a school place in the local area. Haringey have said "Our cautiousness [in school place planning] has been justified in that, on national offer day we were able to offer all PA2 [Hornsey/Crouch End] families either one of their preferences or an alternative school place within 1.51 miles of their home address. This included 16 families who were allocated a school further than 1 mile from their home address."

Haringey have also told us that as of May there were 22 families in Hornsey/Crouch End who weren't offered any of their reception place preferences. The council say that's gone down to 9 now but that reduction includes people who've accepted a place elsewhere even though they still haven't been offered any of their preferences. Whitehall Park seems to be the Council's preferred place to encourage people to go because there doesn't seem to be much demand in the local area for places there. Haringey say 5 families have been are still allocated a school between 1 and 1.51 miles from their home.

I don't think it's against Haringey's rules to get a school place by moving temporarily close to a school whilst retaining your original home address. The child just needs to be living at the address on the application form when it's submitted.

The secondary admissions situation seems just as bad with Hornsey Vale being the largest black hole with very little chance of getting into HWS. If Hornsey School for Girls went co-ed that would help but no plans on that front at the moment.

Catherine West has taken up the school places issue with the Council so it's worth contacting her. She's been very helpful so far and has been talking to Haringey about the primary and secondary places in the area.

Our son's been lucky enough to be offered St Mary's as they've expanded this year and as usual haven't filled all their church places. We're not 100% happy as it's a church school but it's closer to home and has a good reputation. The waiting lists for the local community schools have hardly moved so far this year.

[northernlight1]

Well I'm glad your son managed to get a place you're happy enough with. Must have been a huge stress.

I'll get in touch with Catherine West. There really should be scope to get the sibling restriction rule put in place. It's hard to find an acceptable argument in not implementing it and am sure it will become common place over the next few years.

As for temporarily moving closer to a school to gain access, it is absolutely prohibited. This is pretty unequivocal and you shouldn't be able to get away with it.

"All changes of address are thoroughly investigated and we do not accept information relating to a temporary arrangement put in place to gain access to a preferred school. Applicants moving address are required to prove that there is no remaining connection with the previous property and may be asked to supply additional evidence such as proof of completion on the property sold or a copy of termination of tenancy agreement on the previous property. Applicants who own two properties will need to supply proof of Council Tax for their current address and documentation detailing the use of other property."

"If we find out that a school place was obtained using a false address, we will withdraw the offer and give it to a child who was entitled to the place."

The question is just how aware would be rule breakers are of the policy and how successful the policing is. But by implementing the sibling rule you should be able to kill two birds with one stone.

Also, interesting that your case shows that introducing a bulge class only pushes the problem down the line a couple of years. Two years later you end up with a really high sibling content and an even smaller cut-off zone. Then someone else does a bulge class... and so on. They're really going to have to tighten up the rule book here to ensure only genuine local residents get access to the schools.