Just how easy is it to achieve L4 in the L3-5 reading SAT tests?

[Twitchomatic]

DD has achieved L4 in a reading SATS paper. She's in year 2.

Her private school pass on test results (they do a lot of tests) but seem loathe to share their teacher assessments, which seems odd. Neither do they provide next steps / targets.

Not to do DD down at all, she's bright, enjoys reading etc., but I'm struggling to accept that she's working at a level more usually expected in year 6.

Am I right to think her result says more about the test than her ability and should I push the school for their teacher assessment levels rather than accepting the test result at face value?

I ask this because I assumed her teacher would have to back up her end of year level with evidence from class work yet her class comprehension work is fairly basic. Or don't the rules about yr 2 SAT results being teacher assessed apply to private schools?

Achieving a Level 4 in one test paper does not mean she is working at Level 4. As I understand it national curriculum levels no longer exist which is probably why the school won't pass on teacher assessed levels.

I would want to know that she is progressing and being given work suitable to her ability and potential.

Thanks for replying WatchooLookingAt.

Levels still apply for year 2 this year, though after that I presume they'll have a new system. I do want to know that she's progressing and her next steps, and it is strange they don't share that information.

It's hard to know if I'm worrying over nothing when all the info provided relates to how she performs in a test on a particular day. All the more so if the test results are almost meaningless.

Any ideas on how to approach the school without putting backs up given that I have asked for teacher assessed levels already and been refused?

Private schools don't have to administer SATs, so no the rules don't apply.
Why is she doing a KS2 test in Y2?

What exactly are you worrying about? Do yo think she's behind or not challenged enough?

Children were doing L3 papers in year 1, how can you show progress through tests unless they get progressively harder?

I'm worried that they are over inflating grades and that I don't really know DDs ability, progress or next steps. What's the point of being told a result if it's meaningless? I'm also worried about the over reliance on tests too, it's as if the teachers aren't trusted, though I could be totally wrong on that score.

don't worry about teacher assessments, targets, etc, they are just so much meaningless drivel. Far better for your teachers to concentrate on teaching than waste their days on that garbage.

Charis,

So you thuink that teachers should just 'impart knowledge' without any consideration of what they can already do, and what they need to learn to do next??

Or do you simply mean that the proxcess of documenting those formally can detract from the main - and much more flexible - business of teaching every child in the class exactly what they need to learn that day to make progress?

I agree with Charis. No one is going to ask what level she got on her SATS when she goes for a job interview. If your feeling is that she's enjoying school, learning, doing well and happy then that should be the biggest reassurance.

Nobody but the people setting targets for GCSEs

Ah, that is pants, if school is overinflating its results. Who would have thought the private sector would do such a thing
If you post about the books she confidently reads and understands at home you can get a pretty good idea if she's average bright (typical of MN!) or a wild genius. At that age mine were most confident with short chapter books... Horrid Henry or Jeremy Strong type books, which put them into L2a-3 territory (apparently). Good luck.

I would have thought it was quite hard for a Y2 child to genuinely get a Level 4 - simply because they are unlikely to have the vocabulary and maturity to "get" the reading material - they might be able to read all the words, but unlikely to get all the nuances of language.

Would be interested to hear what she is routinely reading at home.

Well if children all learnt in the same way and at the same rate then I'd agree that teacher assessment is so much meaningless drivel ....

Target setting, exactly. Giving an idea of end of year results (i.e. the target they expect DD to achieve) is also not shared - just the results of tests.

Any views on how meaningless the result of this test is, compared to teacher assessments? If a teacher had a L4 reading child in yr 2 how would they evidence this?

Ragged, it is totally pants (though not exclusive to private schools of course ).

Interestingly the L4s that are achieved at the end of KS1 every year are only shared internally, they are not put on the school's website. I didn't know that L4 was the benchmark for the brightest DCs until DD joined the school. That's fine, it's a selective school. What doesn't feel fine is having no evidence for L4 except for test results.

dd is in year 2. She is one of the best readers in class (not trying to boast, just to set the levels) But it is a very broad spectrum in her class. She is about a 3C and will get a level 3 in sats I think.

As a previous poster said the best indication is the books she is reading.
So, she is well past Horrid Henry and rainbow fairies (I hate them but she loves them)
She reads chapter books, she can read most Roald Dahl books, but I am reading Matilda out loud and I think she would struggle a bit to read that to herself, but probably manage it.
She is reading How to Train Your Dragon, but doesn't get every word. (gets enough to understand it.

Her comprehension is very good because I read to her at a higher level, and so she has a good vocabulary.

So, if your dd is quite a way beyond that then it is possible she is getting level 4.

as I understand it, state school are not allowed to give levels on test alone. The test is only one part. In fact the teacher assessment is used as the more reliable indicator. A test anomaly would not give the child a level 4 at the end of the year.

Given that it is almost impossible to get a level 6 reading at year 6, I am not sure that it is to anyone's advantage to inflate their level to 4 at year 2, given that the vital statistic is progress.

When DD was in Y2 (again one of the best readers in her class, and a late-July birthday) she was given a L3 for her SATs and teacher assessed at a 3b for all the English elements. She was confidently reading Harry Potter books at that stage. Now in Y6 she is being put in for level 6 papers in English Reading and SPaG. She is bright, but not genius level, so I don't think that it is that unusual.

seeline - but if Harry Potter = level 3, then surely level 4 (which is what op is asking) is not really possible in year 2?

steppemum - I meant if DD had managed a L3, and wasn't genius level. then a L4 was probably achievable. I agree though that there is more to taking just one test to assess each level.

sorry, yes I see, just that I think HP is quite advanced for year 2!

I know that for level 6 reading, the reason so few achieve it is that the comprehension content is just too mature for 11 year olds, and so however good they are at reading, very few can get the level.

I would have thought that was the same at level 4, that the content at some point just becomes too old for a 7 year old to get?

Yep - I agree. I haven't seen many of the L6 papers, but I think the main difficulty is the change in the style of the questions - much more inference etc. DD has always had good comprehension and writing skills, but I'm not sure she'll make the grade. What astounds me is that L6 is the expected standard of a Y10 - is that right?! I cannot believe a 10-11 year old could have the same comprehension skills of a 14-15yo. They just don't have enough life experience!

seeline - My ds is in year 7 at grammar school and was recently tested with a reading age of 16. He took level 6 paper last year but got a level 5. He his fairly bog standard grammar kid, not top of class, no genius. I think the actual average levels of some things are quite low.
level 4 is really pretty low for a year 6 child, but it is national average. When you are an articulate reading family (as most of mn is I guess) it is a hard to imagine how many kids out there struggle to make that level 4

Sorry op bit of a tangent

Curriculum for SATs remained the same this year as you said, my DS1 got level 4s in his year 6 SATs last year so she is doing very well. Level 4 is a "pass" at year 6 and is the minimum level they are expected to achieve.

DD's first boyfriend (okay, only bf, so far) in secondary did get the L6 in reading; they retain a friendly rivalry & it's a source of glee to DD if she can beat his mark in any English assessment. I think it's been good for her, really, that she didn't get the L6.