Reception class size of 60.....why would they do this?

[Niceproblemtohave]

Visited an excellent primary school today (Ofsted outstanding) and they have recently merged the 2 reception classes of 30 into 1 big class of 60, supported by 2 teachers and 6 classroom assistants. I was so surprised I didn't ask all the questions I shoud have done.

Does anyone have any experience of this - it certainly felt noisy and very busy, but not totally chaotic. My daughter is an August born and I'm just worried she's going to be terrified / trampled on / lost in such a large group

The school is also now replicating this for Year 1 - although Year 2 classes will run as 2 classes of 30

All advice welcome!! Thank you

I our school is like this, 1 huge space with 2 teachers and 4 tas officiallying and for many activities their are 2 classes but it's easier to do group work across the 60 and it means they have more space to play on wet days, we have an undercover area attached to one classroom and they go in and out freely. It's noisy seems captivating but the kids love it and do well.

Caotic not captivating

I'm a governor at a school like this. I was a bit but have had a look around and it seems to work. The children are put into groups by ability, across two classes, they all spread out when it is free play, and when it is direct teaching time, they're at other ends of the (huge) room. It is noisy when they're running about - but all reception classes I have been to are!

I taught in a FS unit for many years (52 pupils) and found the main advantage was shared expertise. Primary teachers need to teach all subjects but that doesn't mean they are experts in all.

DD3's first school had two reception classes in a T-shape. They left the doors open so the children were only in their designated class for register. It worked well.

Dd's school is like this except there are 90 children, 3 teachers, 4 TAs, 2 nursery nurses and a learning mentor

The children have a lead teacher that the do phonics, registration etc with but they are free to mix other than the formal sessions

Formal classes are then arranged for yr1 and they are able to balance the classes as they already know the children

They stay in these classes through the whole school

The only difference between this and any other full reception intake is a wall. One wall.

Many schools choose to keep reception more fluid for friendship groups or academic reasons. It doesn't save money and they have quiet a few TAs by what you have said. More than most reception classes.

If you are worried that your child will be lost then you need to either delay entry or find a school was smaller class sizes since the adult to child ratio you have described is higher than most stand alone 30 reception place classes.

Our reception has done this. Free flow between the rooms and outdoor space for 60 children. 2 teachers, 4 TAs.

It has not been a good thing for October born ds3. He went to a very small preschool and also struggles with identifying how he/other people are feeling. His first term and a bit were really stressful for him.

I'm not sure I understand the benefits for the children, although I can see the benefits for the school in terms of sharing resources between the classrooms.

I've seen this before and like the idea but don't think it suits my kids (one got hugely overstimulated and couldn't cope with mostly free play environments at all, let alone massive ones - the other has hearing loss! He needs quiet!)
which is a shame because I love the free play principles.

I would be looking for really good communication and flexibility from staff. How do they identify children who struggle to concentrate on what they are doing when there is background noise and what do they do to help them?

My daughter is in a reception like this, I volunteer so can see how well it works. Instead of having 2 of everything (home corner/construction/painting etc) there's one of each so the space is used really well. Half of them seem to be outside (even in winter, there's a covered area so they don't get wet) and it never seems chaotic or noisy. Teaching is in small groups and there's loads of staff. Good idea to me!

Sounds great - most things will be done in groups of 5 or 6 anyway so it's not going to affect things by being too big, but opens up great possibilities because there will be less duplication of effort from the teachers.

I've been in quite a few classrooms like this. I couldn't teach in one and I couldn't put my children in one. My ds in particular would have been completely overwhelmed by it. I understand why schools do it resources-wise but it doesn't make it a sound pedagogical/educational choice for lots of children.

I'm interested to know what groups of children people believe won't benefit from this type of provision.

I should imagine you have one teacher in charge of your child with the two teachers and assistants planning together. Is this the case?

I am trying to work out if the benefit here would be more for the teacher rather than the child. Class parties would be big too!!

Mrz- I just said a few posts above yours that one of my children has hearing loss, large open spaces with lots of children are not great because of background noise, the difficulty in making the light in the room suitable for lipreading and lots of other small things that build up to make it exhausting for a deaf child to keep up with what is going on. Perhaps you should speak to a specialist teacher for the deaf of you are interested?

My other child has symptoms of sensory issues/autistic traits (but nit enough for a diagnosis) and just finds large groups like that hugely overstimulating to the point where she can't hold a sentence in her head for long enough to write it down (she is a bright articulate girl is less stressful environments)

"I'm interested to know what groups of children people believe won't benefit from this type of provision."

Sometimes children with autism or auditory processing disorders can struggle in such large enviroments. I agree that children with glue ear might struggle in a large echoey classroom. (However some children will struggle wherever they go.)

Our school's reception class is like this. 6- children, 2 teachers and 6 TAs. They have 4 key groups of 15 and one teacher is responsible for 2 key groups. They sit down in their key groups for carpet time and registration. They have 4 ability groups of 15 too and do literacy and maths in those groups too. I think it works quite well as essentially they are always in groups of 15 unless it free play time. I did once go in at free play time to took at the school before I applied for DC1 and I was shocked at the noise and chaos as I was used to the DCs nursery being small and only a handful of kids in each room. But DS loved it as he is very outgoing and confident and wasnt' bothered about the noise. DD was less taken with the set up and she took a while to settle as she was overwhlemed by the noise and chaos. She would have been better off with a smaller class. She is very attached to her key worker though and makes a bee line to her in the morning and now she has more friends too.

I've taught many children with autism and dozens of children with glue ear in a FS unit and all have thrived.
There is no reason why a unit should be any noisier than a normal classroom ...

DD1 spent most of Reception complaining that it was "too noisy". That was in a class of 22. Now that she is 12, she can rationalise it and explains that she finds large groups of people confusing and exhausting. She can't process lots of people talking at once. The day she started one-to-one piano lessons was a revelation to both of us ... she was so excited about learning in a quiet, peaceful room. She also LOVED the Victorian day when they all had to sit facing the front and keep quiet!

Interestingly, MIL tells me that DH used to have special permission to go and work in a separate, quiet room when he was at primary school. I have a strong suspicion that he has undiagnosed Aspergers (he agrees!) and possibly DD1 has similar traits.

Now, I agree that a well-managed, large Reception classroom with lots of separate areas need not necessarily be excessively noisy and over-stimulating. But I did avoid a school with a combined nursery and reception class of 60 children out of similar concerns to the OP. And from what I now know of DD1 in particular, I'm glad I did!

We viewed a school like this for ds1 and avoided it like the plague.

Ds1 had quite severe speech and language delay (pronounciation, not comprehension). At nursery and reception age, strangers didn't understand him at all and his pronounciation was more alike to an 18 month/2 year old.

I didn't want him in a mix of 60 kids where each teacher had 60 kids to get to know...it takes patience, practice and just time in general to understand ds1 which I didn't think would happen in a huge class.

We chose a small, one year entry school (Think it was 22 in his class) and it was the best thing we did. His teacher and TA's used to write down phonetically things he said in the day that they just couldn't get, and then I would translate for them at pick up time...I can't imagine that would have happened with 60 kids to get to know, even with two teachers.

I think it depends on how well managed the large classroom is by the adults tbh. In principle it's a great idea for sharing resources and expertise etc but lots of children can struggle with noisy rooms even without additional needs or can prefer smaller environments.

I have visited a school where the Foundation Stage was set up exactly like this and as an adult I found it very hard to concentrate due to the noise levels when there wasn't structured teaching going on. Personally it's not an environment I'd choose for my DS who is quite quiet and doesn't like a lot of noise around him.

My elder DD had this large reception class at school but in our day it was 66 children. The large classroom two smaller classrooms on the side. It was called a hen and chickens arrangement and was really popular in the late 1960's and early 1970's although my DD went to this schoolin the 1990s. The smaller rooms were used for quieter teaching activities, hearing children read, number work, writing etc. whilst the larger room was set up for more exploratory and "play" based activities. Each child was assessed to see what skills they already possessed and their activities were tailored accordingly. On visits to the classroom there was never, ever, noisy chaos. I cannot imagine either of the teachers putting up with this. I think there were 2 TAs back then so 6 is very good in the OP's case.

We did not see any disadvantages to it at all. My DD learnt by leaps and bounds and she has a mid August birthday. Because the teachers kept noise levels down and children respected the rules of classroom, all the children learn and the quieter ones were not put off. The classroom was always a hive of activity and there was so much on offer for the children to do and learn because of the larger space. The school was outstanding, but I do think this arrangement is best with outstanding teachers and activities must engage the children. If there are high levels of children not ready to learn, or lots of very noisy children and poor teachers, there is a probelm even if the class size is 20 or 30 in a single classroom.