(Un)Reasonable Expectations?

[flashbunny73]

Our eldest child, DD, started reception last september. We live in the sticks in a small town / village, most people are farmers and she is settled and very happy at the village school which is reckoned to be one of the best in the area.
DD is reasonably bright and very chatty. However she often describes school as 'very easy' and any 'homework' she gets is very easy for her. We have had 2 parents evening. Her teacher is a nice lady and clearly been in the job a long time so I guess she knows what she is doing. However when we look at her school book her writing is huge between 2 lines the width of a 30cm ruler. We were a bit shocked, when she writes at home it is much smaller and neater. Also the teacher had her reading very easy books for a long time and 'ticked' me off for moving her to the next reading level saying she would have to re-read the same books in Year 1...
Are we being annoying pushy-parents? Should we leave the school to it? Or do they not really know what she can do? There are only 16 children in the class...
I just feel a bit underwhelmed. We could afford to have her educated privately but this would involve a considerable car / bus journey (35-60mins each way depending on the school). So I am reluctant to move her til she is older.
Anyone had a similar dilemma and found a solution?

If she's happy that counts for a lot. Also I think lots of kids say they're bored, especially when they start school. I'm not saying she isn't, but it could just be that she's not yet used to being one of many.

Could you look at the published SATs levels. Especially look closely at value added (so how much progress do the children make from when they start at the school), etc? Then how many of the kids don't achieve the required national level of 4B in yr6. What proportion manage level 5's. SATs have changed this year, but it's what's published for each school so should give you some idea. If the results aren't too good then your worries could well have some foundation.

Is she rushing her classwork to get to do something which she finds more challenging hence why it isnt as neat?

Have a meeting to discuss your concerns. She may find reading easy but they may think she is not as far ahead in other areas

How much help do you give her with writing at home?

Perhaps the school handwriting is a better reflection of what she is capable independently?

16 is a perfect class size, if the teacher is any good she will be tailoring all of the learning to each individual child, and challenging them and pushing them.

Private schools don't always mean better teaching. I have a child just started in my R class, moved from private school, and she is far behind the other children, she didn't even know what a digraph or trigraph were and can hardly segment and blend. All of my other reception children can do this.

I would worry about a child saying work is easy or boring though. If my children say that then I tell them they are obviously not challenging themselves enough and they have to find something to do that they find difficult (plenty of opportunities set up around the class that I know will challenge them and push them that I can direct them to as well).

Perhaps the teacher doesn't challenge them but just lets them 'play'?

No point moving her though, she has less than a term left and she will be in a new class with a new teacher.

Thanks for your input. I have checked the SATS, some 31% get a 5 at KS2. Value Added is 100% give or take 0.5%. The school is one of the better primary schools in the area but nothing spectacular.

She enjoys writing so at home she will write little notes (and the spelling is totally wild etc) but she will take up 2 lines of writing in a normal notepad. At school it is about 4 or 5 lines' height and its super messy. She does rush things. I'm afraid she is rather like me and has a rather low attention span! But we don't hover over her when she writes unless she asks for help. So some of her letters are back to front etc.

I'm certainly not suggesting she is the smartest child in the class or anything but given the (educational) background of most of the families she should be in the top 25% at least and she enjoys reading, writing etc so is very motivated. With us she will not inherit a family business e.g. farm but will have to make her own way in the world. So we are probably more educationally focused than many of the other families. (They had a session on how to help your child learn to read and out of 16 families only 4 turned up, despite 80% of the mum's not working).

We don't do much writing with her but I do get her to read 2 books to me most evenings (5 evenings a week?). At school she only reads to a teacher twice a week - is this normal in reception? She has now been moved to ORT level 3 (book band 3) and it seems the expectation is that they will finish the reception year on book band 1+/ 2 / 3 but certainly nothing higher. From Mumsnet it seems like in other schools there are children doing better than this?

We will certainly give the next class a try (she will be in it for 2 years as they have 2 age groups in a class). Many thanks.

10 books a week is a lot, but if she's happy to do that it's fine. 10-15 mins a night is what's more commonly expected. ORT level 2/3 by the end of the year isn't out of line with many schools, but you would expect some children to be above that and some below. The explanation that she can't move up a level because she'd have to read the same books again in year 1 would worry me though. That's not really how it's supposed to happen.

Level 3 is an upper average for the end of reception. 2 times a week is the most any teacher will get to read. I am sure they would appreciate parent helpers with this. EYFS is about the most balanced and well rounded outcomes for the child. They are probably looking at other areas with her.

I wouldn't use MN as a guide for what is "normal".

Agree 10 books a week is a lot. Level 3 is good progress for this point in Reception - at my DC's "average" school that would certainly put her at the top end of the class - remember she still has a whole term to go!! Also a lot of schools use this year to get children used to school and build basics - I would wait and see how she gets on in Year 1 (when you may well see her flying). 2 times a week is pretty good going for reading with a teacher!!

Re the reading meeting, a lot of parents will have older children and have been through this before - so 4 out of 16 is actually a good turn out (and great that your school runs this ...)

No that is a fair point redskybynight I hadn't thought that some of the children would have elder siblings, this is the case for approx 4 out of the 16 children.

At the parents evening the teacher did say in the end of term EYFS report that DD would either be exceeding or achieving in all areas. I did ask what we could do to help her and she said 'practice halving and doubling' and 'counting in blocks of ten'. So I tried the halving and doubling with her (up to a total of 12 or so) and she said it was easy and got them all right. We are keen to help if we know what we need to focus on...

I went with my DDs and got books out of the library to supplement the school's reading books. DD1 raced through the school books, but choosing good quality library books really improved vocabularly and were more interesting books. Poems were a big favourite too. Don't give your DD reading scheme books that conflict with what the school is doing. There is much more fun to be had with other good books. Discuss the story and the characters too. You can start doing tables, number bonds, and lots of practical maths games. Buy work books if you think she needs a bit more challenge. Ask the school for the Maths topics for the rest of the year. I am staggered so few parents turned up to the meeting. Quite often schools with interested and engaged parents do better than those whose parent body is less interested. I would guess the parents are not providing any challenge to the school. What a pity.

I rather disagree about class size. I think 20-24 is better because it splits into working groups more readily according to ability. Sometimes with just 16, there can be very few bright children, so the teacher works to the class average. They should not, by the way, but it is easy to do when only one or two children require differentiated work at the top end. It can happen when the teacher has been there for a while and the schoolis probably coasting. Also, I do wonder how good this teacher is if she can only manage 16 children and is not differentiating? So many teachers would see that number as a total luxury in the state system. It also shows that class size is not the main factor regarding quality of learning - it is the quality of the teacher!!! 31% level 5 is only 3 out of 10 children and you do not know how many of these were 5a and how many were 5c. This could represent one child at 5a and at 100% value added no-one is making better than expected progress. I also agree that stating a child would have to repeat a reading book is just not acceptable. What school does that in this day and age? (Or even any previous age?)

I agree with you Millymollymama it is a bit lack lustre and quite frankly leaves me underwhelmed.. We do get library books to read as the school reading books (ORT with biff and chip) even my daughter finds dull.

I should imagine of the 16 there are atleast 4 children at a similar level (although 1 refuses to read at home so that's tricky!). One child has very poor communication skills poor chap and can barely speak. So I realise they have to keep everyone entertained and progressing but I would have thought with such a small class they would be able to 'tailor' things a bit more. My impression is my daughter is largely spinning her wheels whilst most of the others are learning to count to 20..

We have been to discuss stuff (reading level, progress etc) 2 or 3 times this year and I suspect soon they will just ignore us... I did ask in March if we had the latest maths 'homework' as it dated back to February and I was assured I did.

Still we will hang in for next year and hope its a bit more inspiring.

Reception children should not be really getting homework. Biff and Chip of course are boring but designed to teach the fundamentals about reading. All children say things are boring and easy even when they don't get it right. 3 is very good. 3 is pretty much top of what is expected in reception. Reception are supposed to play and the environment laid out for open ended challenge. Work sheets the enemy etc. She sounds fine and she is doing well. No one is the whole package and reception has things to teach her on whatever level. Breath and depth of learning. Let her get on with it.

Children should read the level that they are capable of reading and which provides appropriate challenge. I would expect some children in Reception to be above level three, as some would be below.

I am really surprised by the suggestion that reception children should not be getting homework.

My DD gets:
a reading book a night (we have whizzed though and practically finished the Jelly & Bean series)
7 words a week to learn for a spelling test
2 sentences a week to write (to include specific words) plus draw pictures pictures of.

Over Easter she has had to prepare a timeline showing pictures of her at different ages and write a sentence about each one and write a sentence about what she did in the holidays.

Her reading is pretty good but I think her writing is shocking.

My child was never bored in Reception. They learnt lots of new things. I am glad it was not all about play. She was very ready to learn to read and do maths, and learn to write. The whole point about education at a good school is tailoring the curriculum to the needs to the child. It should not be about dictating play if a child is able to read when they start in Reception, for example. I have just come back from a training session on data monitoring for governors. There is lots of data the school will have on the progress of your child OP. Ask the teacher for her detailed assessment of your DDs attainment. Based on her entry assessment, is she above or at expected levels of progress. They should know.

From what I've observed, YR in the state sector is fairly relaxed. Kids are mostly meant to get used to school, routines, etc. The learning picks up in Y1 and so on.

Selective private schools would be more "pushy" right from the start, but the non-selective ones would also go slow as they need to deal with a range of abilities.

If you want your DD to have a bit more challenge - I'd continue as you are. Read books with/to her. Pick up math around you - (not just doubling/halving) -- let her count change in a shop, tell time, measure things, etc.

If you do worksheets with her - I'd do math word problems, rather than counting sums.

They shouldn't. Reading books yes and phonics but spelling etc... No I don't think so. It surprises me how unknowledgeable people seem to be about how children learn. Maths, reading, writing etc all happens and the learning areas are laid out and enriched for them to develop and use their skills. It is all to wheedle out what the children actually know and understand as opposed to table work worksheets.

thanks for the input.

In terms of 'homework' she gets 2 books to read a week (so we have bought books and get them from the library), about twice a term she gets 'tricky words' to learn e.g. 'me' which she usually finds incredibly easy and we have had 1 maths 'game' in the whole academic year. They haven't asked her to write anything etc. She enjoys writing and likes to write little notes and thank you cards etc.

My concern is the local school is geared up for farmers children etc. who are probably not expected to progress education beyond 18 if that. We are both professionals who went to university and are very keen for our children to get the same opportunities. I think in the future our children will have to compete with the children in London at the pushy private schools to get into university and get the good jobs etc. I am happy for my daughter to learn through play etc as long as she is moving along. We didn't 'do' masses with her before she started school but she could count to 20 and knew her A,B,C but surprisingly some of the children did not. In fact 5 of the 16 in her class are still on Book Band 1+ after 2 terms. So despite the governments efforts with free 15 hours nursery per week everyone does not have the same starting point but I just want to be sure DD is allowed to progress and not 'waiting' for everyone else to 'catch up'. DD is keen as mustard to learn new things and DH is teaching her french a couple of times a week!

I am going to see if I can meet with the teacher for next year (Year 1) to gauge what goes on there. Any ideas on burning questions I should ask?

I have 2 kids that both have been at the top end of the local school, having local friends is very important and shouldn't be underestimated.

Reading the words is only half of it. Does she know what happened in the story? can she guess what going to happen? Can she make up a different ending? these are all things you can ask her as she is reading. Much better to read less books but develop language and understanding.

The other thing you can do is play board games with her lots involve maths as well as learning to share and chatting.

Coloring and other craft projects develop hand eye coordination which will help her writing.

Find her a hobby. Rainbows, st Johns or learning a musical instrument.

Hm. DS is at an 'outstanding' primary school in a leafy London suburb, with a decidedly MC intake, and I know that a clear majority of the current reception parents have university degrees (but I don't know everyone's backgrounds). The school gets excellent results and many children go to sought-after selective secondary schools, in both the state and private sector.

I know for a fact that over a third of the reception children were reading on 1+ at the end of last term.

From that perspective, your 'farmer' school is doing pretty well!

Also, you might want to review your assumptions on what farming is like these days, in terms of education/knowledge/expertise needed... And has it occurred to you that farmer families may have aspirations for their second/third/fourth child as well (not just their PFB who might, or might not, choose to inherit their farming business)?

No one 'should' be reading before reception. That is the job of a school. It is not the job of nursery to teach them (though some do) and it is controversial to do any kind of formal learning in nursery (phonics, reading). They should develop re-reading skills as in holding the book the right way, following left to right etc. Children are not taught their alphabet first nowadays at schools - they learn the sounds first - so it is little point in her knowing her ABC to be honest. She needs to be school ready but the job of reception is to teach them to read, their phonics etc. Also it is pointless them knowing how to count to 20 - it means nothings because if they can't count out 18 things and then match it with the number 18 - then they don't understand. Relax - I used to teach in the absolute of 'farmer' land - in fact my entire family came from 'farmers.' I wouldn't be so sure with your predictions.

TBH when I was a child I wanted to be a farmer so I certainly don't have anything against them ;-).

You are quite right there will be 2nd, 3rd and 4th children who dont get the farm (it is also still rare for daughters to get the farm).. There are very few large employers around here (the saw mill is the largest). So most people going into farming related stuff (insurance, supplies etc) or services (care, childcare, hairdressing, working in shops etc). Average income is £12k per annum (farmers have good accountants ;-).

Its good to know that schools in london arent so different! Thanks for your help.