Haven't got preferred school. What to do now?

[ShadowStone]

We have just found out that DS1 has not been allocated a place at our preferred school.

He has been offered a place at our 2nd preference, but we're not happy for a few reasons.

First preference school is the only school in walking distance. Second preference (our 2nd closest school) is about 2 miles away, and we can't walk there without walking across a dangerous (for pedestrians) motorway junction roundabout.

There's a good chance that most of DS1's friends from nursery will be going to our preferred school. Preferred school is also the best around here.

Question is, what do we do now? Just liking school A better than school B isn't going to get us anywhere at appeal.

Obviously we want to get onto the waiting list for our preferred school, but what else?

DH is suggesting that accepting the place offered would knock us off the waiting list for preferred school - is he right or wrong? We aren't keen on the offered school but there are worse ones he could be allocated if we reject the offer and second preference fills up (although it has been oversubscribed for the last few years).

I assume that we have missed out on a place at preferred school on distance grounds - our council measure this as closest walking distance. Can we ask for the distance they've used for us so we can check they've actually measured from the right house? Or is this information only given out if we appeal?

Last year, the school admitted an extra 7 pupils above the PAN - does this set some sort of precedent for admitting extra this year? 7 doesn't really seem big enough to be a bulge class?

They're also increasing admission sizes next year by about 15 - again, would this work in our favour?

The PAN isn't a multiple of 30 but some classes are mixed age groups.

And regarding appeals and maximum class sizes - next year, our preferred school is increasing intake. My understanding is that this will be a permanent increase in intake numbers.

The number they've given for next year's PAN is not a multiple of 30. I know they do some mixed age classes, but when the PAN is multiplied by 3 (for reception, Y1, Y2), it's still not a multiple of 30. So would that suggest there might be a bit of wiggle room around increasing this year's numbers without causing future prejudice for numbers in subsequent years?

This year's PAN is not a multiple of 30 either.

What is the pan?

we got our fifth choice (!), but it was really our third (two we knew were impossible, I am sure we are 8000th on the waiting list for those).

DD1 also didn't get into our first choice three years ago, and the year after they had a bulge class, so there are far more siblings now. sucks to be us.

I was wondering if anyone knew what information a school will provide. Specifically, I want to know how many children from DD1's year (so current year 2) live further than we do. I suspect it's a large number as it is a popular school. I am also curious how many children this year (for DD2) got in but live further than us (so, looked after and siblings that live farther).

will the school give me this information?

Here they measure home to school distance "as the crow flies". Not taking into account routes.

So your footpath might be irrelevant.

PAN = published admissions number.

So if PAN for school A is 30, that means school A will accept up to 30 children in their reception intake.

Micah - here, the distance is measured by shortest walking routes, not as the crow flies.

So footpaths are relevant, the question is does it meet the councils definition of a footpath.

Does the path have lights? That is often a factor they use to decide if it counts.

I know what a b@@@@@ pan is. I meant what is the pan for the school !

Sorry acegik, I misunderstood the question!

It's 38.

I'll need to check whether the path has lights or not. Can't remember right now.

So would that suggest there might be a bit of wiggle room around increasing this year's numbers without causing future prejudice for numbers in subsequent years

Not necessarily. It depends on the details of their plan, in particular what the class sizes will look like in each of the next three years. But I would certainly try that argument in the appeal if the school argues it as an ICS case.

Well, spoke to the council and the school today, and it looks like we have next to no chance.

The council told me that DS1 was the third refused child, so 2 children who live closer to the school than us didn't get in.

The school confirmed that last year they had accepted 7 extra pupils. The council had asked if the school were willing to take them as these children had appealed for a place, and they were happy to take the extra pupils as they had the capacity for them and want all the children in the village to be able to attend the school. This is unfortunately bad news for this year's extra children.

Given the number of classes in the infant part of the school, numbers admitted in 2013 and 2014 (including the 7 children admitted who appealed last year), this year's PAN brings the number of children in the infant classes to one child below the absolute maximum they can take in the infant classes without breaching the 30 children per class legislation.

So, they might agree to take 1 extra child at appeal without being forced to (as was the case with the 7 extra children last year) because they've room for 1 extra, but they can't take any more.

I'm not holding out much hope of getting offered a place on reallocation day, or of the waiting list shifting quickly. This is the only school in the village, so successful parents are unlikely to have listed it as a second 'reserve' choice, and as far as I can tell, people don't tend to move around quite as much here as they might in big towns and cities.

So at the minute I'm thinking the most likely scenario for us getting in is the highly unlikely one where a handful of parents forget to send the acceptance form back and get their places reallocated.

I'm still going to appeal though, because the council advised me to do so when I was talking to them in the phone. Even though realistically it's likely to be pretty pointless.

Tiggytape, and anyone else with the answer... Where on this thread you mention about the ics being 30 across years R-2 is this across all 3 years as an average? Or just each class?

I didn't get my catchment school based on ics but the current numbers in the 2 years above are 27 and 28 so I am just wondering if that might help me and they could technically take 35 this year?

Any thoughts?

minty - you need to know what their PAN (published admissions number) is - sounds like it is probably 30.

To answer your question - no the fact that there are spaces in Y1 & Y2 does not mean the school can take extra in YR - ICS isn't done as an "average" across the years. The school cannot be forced to rearrange their classes to have mixed year classes. If someone applies for the spare Y1/2 places they would have to be admitted (up to the 30 PAN).

It's 30 per class so being under capacity in other classes doesn't help I'm afraid.

Minty - the reason I was talking about pupil numbers in Y1 and Y2, and how this might help get DS1 a place in our preferred school, is because our preferred school has mixed age classes throughout the school, from reception all the way up to Y6.

So in our case, if Y1 was undersubscribed, it would be relatively easy for them to take extra reception children, jig the age mix of the classes around slightly, and keep within the 30 children per class limit, because the school already does mixed year classes, so we wouldn't be asking them to do anything they don't already do.

It's a completely different scenario if you're looking at a primary school where there's no history of mixed year classes.

De now 5.8 has been on waitlist for her sisters village school since sept no one in reception has left.

Yet 4spaces in year 1.

The pan is 20

R standalone class of 20 so ics don't apply.
Class 2 20 year 1 max and 10 of youngest year 2 so 30 total ics applies.

Met with head class 3 is 10 older ear 2 and 20 year 3 ans was told ics won't apply if class mixed ks1 and 2 and that class and 2 other older classes can go above 30.

Older year groups also has 1 or more spaces as many move to private which irks me they use the village school like some glorified pre prep and infant's than chip off.
I'm appealing her place and her brothers no idea if I win but think have some flexibility on ics as thy could tweak the mixed classes and I will do my best the greater predict is to my 2 kids who not gained place than to them taking on an extra child.