Help from admission experts please...

[Loobylou3]

Hi
I am trying to gather information around in year transfers and am really confused.
My dd is currently in y1 in a school outside of our local authority (this was our first choice school when she first started school). It is only an infant school and we are considering next steps...our actual catchment school is over subscribed so I don't think there will be any spaces for year 3 (it is a primary nursery to y6). We thought the best way forward would be to try for an in year transfer and so I have phoned the LA today. I was told the school is full and over subscribed (which we knew) but the LA do not keep waiting lists and the man I spoke to could not tell me if the school does (I will call them when term starts). He said the only thing we could do was make an in year application, they'd tell us no place and then we can appeal as it is actually our catchment school.

However, as it is already over subscribed (I heard a rumour they are already taking 32 children in each class , even in ks1, and this year stared 3 form entry) I doubt we would get a place, aside from the fact we actually got our first choice school originally etc.he told me it is basically first come first served with them and so if a child were to leave and ours was the next form on the pile or I phoned at that moment then we could be offered the place. We would have to keep reapplying and phoning to see.
Really I just wanted to see if this is right...I am really surprised that the LA do not keep waiting lists at all.
It is all turning into a bit of a nightmare as up until now we were fine with our dd continuing in her current school and then possibly transferring to the federated junior school, however, our local secondary school has recently become an academy and changed its criteria which means if you haven't been to one of its 'partner' schools you could basically live next door to it and still not get a place!!!
Thanks for any clarification on this...

Which county are you in?

Milton Keynes...

Sorry, I don't know how things work in Bucks. Might be worth posting on your local board?

thanks anyway. Milton Keynes is its own local authority and not actually part of Bucks.

If you go in the school's website, it should state its admissions criteria- it most certainly won't be 'first come, first served', it should have LAC and former LAC as top priority, then perhaps medical/social, siblings, catchment/distance etc. They will allocate in year places according to the criteria.

Schools can now manage their own waiting lists, so it may be best to contact them directly- however, the LA should supply you with a form with which to apply for a place.

Is it a faith school?

You might have caught MK primary admissions team on a bad day...

ds2 is in Y2 in an infant school and we were expecting to hear which junior school he'd got a place at on 16th April - national offers day (or whatever it's proper name is). Except the letter came this morning, complete with instructions on how to accept the place by logging onto the website - which you do and it then says offers to be sent out on 16th April.

I rang them up as obvious I wanted to accept the place there and then (first choice but ds1 is already there) while I was thinking about it and the website wasn't letting me. Hassled lady on the end of the phone was very apologetic and explaining that we weren't supposed to know but that some of the letters had been sent out early by mistake so we couldn't actually accept the place until 16th April when the website would be ready.

I'm guessing that I was not the first to ring to find out what was happening!

I think there is a significant pressure on lots of primary school places in MK at the moment as there's been an explosion of primary age kids that wasn't particularly expected (or at least wasn't well planned for) which is causing lots of problems. That's like to be exacerbated if parents like you have got an eye on senior schools that are changing their entry criteria so that being in the right feeder primary school will make a difference so will be looking to change asap when they wouldn't do ordinarily.

Not ideal but are there any other 'partner' schools that you could look at moving to in year that would enable you to send your dc to the academy you want her to go to? And I guess just keep ringing the school you want her to go to every week (and go and talk to them at the school reception so they 'know' you and you have a face and are a real person to them, rather than being just another disembodied voice at the end of the line) in the hope that something does come up.

And when ds1 was transferring from infants to juniors, a friend of his didn't get in but was hopeful that they'd get in once everything settled down so the mum home ed-ed the dc thinking it was just going to be for a week or two as in previous years there was usually enough flexibility in the system for that to have worked. However - by Christmas they'd gone from being something like 3rd on the waiting list to 45th, at which point she gave up. So again -because there are so many kids for the places, there's much less flexibility in the system than there used to be.

At least if it is your catchment school you have an advantage in that you should be higher up the criteria if they do operate a formal waiting list or if you apply through ordinary Y2 to Y3 transition of places next year.

I've also found that in MK the local councillors and the parish councillors can be quite helpful. In my parish (and I assume that it's the same for others) there's a parish clerk that you can contact for advice about all sorts of things and he has contacts in the council to push for help when needed. And maybe one of those things could be to get a proper, fair, waiting list set up at the school if they don't have one. (And although they're called parish councillors which makes it sound like they're related to the local churches, they're not; it's just the smallest most local unit of local government and seem to cover a grid square or two in size on average).

Sorry not able to be very helpful in your situation though - but good luck.

To be brief, the reality is that no school or LA has to hold a waiting list, so what has been said is probably correct.
In terms of moving schools, the school you want has an admission number of 30 and the only way that they could have got to 32 is by admission appeals or being what is called an excepted pupil. You would not be an excepted pupil situation. So to get a place of a waiting list the school would have to loose 3 pupils in the year group down to 29 before they could admit 1.
In terms of appeals, the infant class size regs would apply and I am afraid your chances of success at appeal are next to nothing in the circumstances you state.
Sorry but you need to rethink what you do, because the chances of getting a space in the school you want is unlikely. If you are certain about the need for the secondary school place, then you need to consider the other partner primary schools and see if any of these are possibilities

Thanks for the replies. My understanding was the LA wanted the school to take a bulge class for y1/2 but the school said no but I heard they did agree to 32 in each class, which did confuse me because I was aware of the infant class size rule.
It is not a church school.
I will call the school when term starts and try to get their take on it all but yes, I was rather surprised when the man said "it is basically first come first served" his exact words! I suppose if no school or LA has to hold a waiting list then this could be right, I.e someone leaves, no waiting list, the next person to apply gets it.
Unfortunately, the other partner schools are equally full, one is a junior so could apply for place there at y3.
Oh well, I will continue to make some calls and see where it all goes.
Thanks for the advice regarding the parish councillor, think I will look into this later.

Louby I'm just looking at ds's admission letter again and realise that it's got the allocation profile for all of the Y3 admissions for next year included.

of the 18 schools that take Y3 children, all but 5 have no vacancies after the first round. There are 73 spaces left in the other 5 schools, mostly split between 2 main ones.

It also says the application criteria and maximum distance allocation where appropriate - if you want to say (or pm me) the school(s) you're interested in, I can let you know what it was like for this year's Y3 intake which might be of interest and useful to know?

Thanks Zipzap...are the schools listed all junior schools?

Louby some of the schools listed are primary rather than just junior schools.

So for example - Caroline Haslett Primary school offered four applicants a place up to criterion 3 (in catchment) up to a distance of 0.301 miles.

Great Linford Primary School - all applicants offered places, 3 vacancies

Hanslope Primary School - all applicants offered places, 0 vacancies

Jubilee Wood PS - all offered places plus others unallocated taken

Long Meadow - Some applicants offered places up to criterion 3 (in catchment) to a distance of 0.228 miles

Olney Middle School - all applicants offered places, 0 vacancies

Tickford Park PS - all aplicants offered up to criterion 5 (out of area with sibling) and some under criterion 6 (out of area) to a distance of 3.403 miles.

I've put down the ones that are definitely PS or that I know to be - the others that don't have primary/junior in the name to help me, I haven't checked so let me know if you want info for a different school!

There aren't any schools listed that say 'no applicants offered places' which I assume they would do if that were the case but who knows!

I think most schools in MK are oversubscribed at the moment (judging by the frantic amount of building going on). There aren't many junior schools either so depending on where you are, you might not have a great chance of getting in that way either if you hang on until Y3. I would guess your best plan is to make an in year application - then you have to be offered something - which of course might not be your catchment school. Then you can decide whether to take that spot or appeal for your catchment or other local schools. There are lots of schools that can't take all children in catchment even applying in Reception though, so a there is a certain amount of children getting in wherever there is a place.

It's also worth bearing in mind that there is secondary school building going on - Oakgrove is expanding to 300 children this year, there is a new school planned for Brooklands and another school vaguely being talked about. So although partner schools get priority it may not be a deal breaker. Hard to tell what will happen from as far off as Y1.

Thanks for the replies...we have been away for a couple of days so only just seen them.