Should I move closer to my preferred school?

[Fiona2011231]

Could you pls advise whether this idea makes sense at all?

My son is in Year 1 and we still hope somehow he can go to another preferred school. Our house is about 450 metres away from that school.

Until last week, he was number one on the waiting list. However when we asked the council for an update, they said he is now number four.

Realistically, can we increase our hope if we try to find and buy a house closer to the school? As my son is already in Year 1, how realistic is it for him to move to the other school in Year 2?

Thank you

I doubt moving any closer will make that much difference. He'll probably get in in Y3 anyway. Just because he's four on the list doesn't mean the other three will accept places. But if you're really desperate, and happen to find a house, and can afford it why not?

Have you considered secondary schools? I would be more prepared to move to get into the secondary of my choice.

450metres from school and you didn't get in during reception or you've moved there since?

So, you live within 450m of your preferred school, but you want to move closer to get further up the list?

I think (personally) that would be madness. I anticipate (this is only a guess) that 3 children have leap-frogged your child because they come further up the priority categories (i.e. "looked after" child, or sibling of existing pupil, that sort of thing). I very much doubt that 3 children have all moved less than 450m away from school in the last week (unless you've noticed any new families with triplets?!) The house buying process is ridiculously long - you'd have to wait for a house nearby to come onto the market, find a purchaser for yours and then probably wait for a couple of months until you exchange (if your LEA has similar rules to ours, it is only after exchange that your new address will be taken as your permanent address) before it has any impact on your son's chances. As you've seen things can change on a weekly basis.

Thank you so much for your kind replies.

To sockmatcher: We have been in our area even before our son was born. However, we were very lucky that in the reception year, the cut-off point was very short. In the following year, it became longer. So we were unlucky.

I mean in the reception year, we were unlucky.

To mandy214 : it was not accurate for me to use the phrase 'until last week'. I meant last week I called the council for an update. And the last time I called them was about two months ago. So perhaps some families have moved in.

Thanks,

Well it still shows that things change. It depends where you are but in my area, there is an intake at the local prep schools at Y3 (aswell as reception) so more places come available - I think we lost about 4 of 60 pupils at that point so even if you don't get in for Year 2, I'd say your chances are good for Yr 3.

Wow very very unlucky. It would appear that the other children live closer or have a higher priority.

What is the admission criteria?
Why is school better than exsisting school. Do you have other siblings that will follow him? If so yes a year 3 application /appeal may be more successful.

To sockmatcher : This is a council-run primary school, so I guess the admission criteria is the same like other state schools.

It seems my second child, now 2 years old, will definitely go to that preferred school. The reason is the council has allowed the school to expand. The work does not start yet, but it will very soon. So in the next two years, when my second son is in Reception, I suppose it is very likely he will be in. But I don’t know how it affects my first son.
Thanks,

To mandy214: I don't know if there is a new intake in Year 3 at this school. Do you think that information is public?

In year three your son would move up the waiting list because he would have a sibling at the school. Separately, new spaces may become available as existing year three pupils move into the independent sector

I think you'd be mad to move a smidgen closer solely to try to get into the school

OP - I believe that the maximum numbers in a class at key stage 1 (reception, year 1 and year 2) is 30, but the limit is higher in key stage 2 (so year 3 onwards), most state schools will take an extra couple per class at that stage. If the others on the list are above you for other criteria reasons (such as sibling places or looked after children), then moving closer won't make any difference. (As there's additional places available at key stage 2 and few people will move settled children at that stage, anyone new moving into the area can often get older DC into the preferred school from a further distance out, then their youngest are siblings so not judged off distance).

oh and it's not just class size limits that effect how many places they will offer, often for H&S reasons the classrooms are too small for larger numbers in year 3 onwards, worth calling the school and asking if they do allow larger numbers at year 3. (and as your DC2 would get a place, then you'd get a sibling link and be higher up the list anyway).

Your replies are greatly appreciated.

So it seems I should stay where I am.

You need to check out the admission criteria for the school. Many Admission Authorities now have a sibling criteria which only applies to younger siblings. So they have to have the older sibling in the school before the younger sibling can be give priority, not the other way around.
In infant year groups (reception through to year 2) there is a maximum of 30 infant pupils to one school teacher, which tends to limit classes under most circumstances to 30. The published admission number of the school is the number of pupils that the school has to take in any one year group and that is therefore set around this maximum. So when it comes to year 3 there is no maximum because of the infant class size regulations, so in theory the class size can be any size. The PAN sets the minimum number of pupils who must be admitted to the year group and this normally stays the same for the year group from reception through to year 6. Some schools do have a different admission number agreed at Junior level but not many. This means that schools can make a decision to admit above the PAN (which they are entitled to do now) to whatever maximum they want or they can say no we will not admit more. Parents can then go to appeal and have a reasonable chance of gaining a place in years 3-6 if the actual numbers are not well above the PAN figure. But there is no automatic right of entry at year 3.

To admission: Your advice is great. Thanks a lot.

Suppose I just stay where I am. Can you tell me if I will still be in the waiting list until Year 3? At the moment, I understand that the waiting list will expire after each academic year. The council will write to us asking if we want to be still in the waiting list. Will the council keep doing this when our child reaches Year 3? Or do I need to make a new application for the school in Year 3?

Thank you

No sorry, I didn't mean a Y3 intake at your school. I meant at local preparatory / independent schools. They tend to have 2 intakes - at reception and Y3. So children who are at your preferred school now may move to independent schools at the start of Year 3, freeing up more places at your preferred school.

"You need to check out the admission criteria for the school. Many Admission Authorities now have a sibling criteria which only applies to younger siblings. "

That's really interesting admission, do you know why they've changed it? It's not personally relevant to us, but it's the main way anyone round here manages to get two places at the same school if they relocate - accept the first place that comes free at a close-ish school (luckily most are good) and then rely on sibling priority to get your other child a place in due course.

OP- how big is the school and how much movement does it have? Being at the top of the list is only any good to anyone if places come up pretty often. Otherwise it's pretty academic.

It would be madness as takes an age and may reap no benefit

To PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom: This school is small. It only has one yearly intake, which means even Year 4 and 5 have 30 pupils. So it is very difficult.

That's why we hope the school expansion would help. But while it is likely our second child will get in, it is unclear how it will help the first child.

Do people leave often? I suppose what I mean is , DD1 is at a school which takes 60. In the last two years, one child has left in her year. You could be at no. 1 in the list and still not get a place for years.

At the school my friend's son is at in London, about 4 have left in the same time.

Every admission authority operates a slightly different system when it comes to waiting lists. The only official and legal waiting list is at reception and year 7 admissions, through to the end of the autumn term.
After that different admission authorities do different things. Some do not operate any official waiting lists at all, some do have waiting lists on either a termly or annual basis. I can only suggest that you find out what your admission authority operates and that from time to time you do check that you are still on the waiting list and where you are on the list.

The issue of siblings in schools has been around for years and the biggest issue has always been that if a pupil gets into a school then it gives priority to siblings potentially over other more local pupils. So you get the situation that pupils have moved further away from the school but still get a place because the admission criteria gives siblings priority. One of the ways of balancing the system better was to only allow sibling priority to younger siblings. More and more admission authorities are going to admission criteria that gives priority to siblings that live in catchment zone, then catchment zone pupils and then siblings who live outside the catchment zone. I am sure it will continue to alter with time but the number of places that are taken up by siblings in a school is frequently an issue. I did admission appeals last year where a school with a PAN of 30, had 24 siblings admitted and pupils living less than 100 yards from the school did not get it in. We quite rightly do give priority to siblings but sometimes we do get situations which do defy logic.

Thanks.

I do get all of that. And I think it's right to crack down on the 'get eldest in and then move three miles away to a much bigger house' thing. I suppose I don't really understand how stopping older siblings helps much. I've never seen anyone trying to get an older sibling into a school that the younger one has got into other than because they've relocated to the area. And of course getting an elder one in would always be a waiting list issue, rather than ending up higher in the normal admission criteria for reception. It's always 'get the eldest in then breathe a sigh of relief'.

I understand how it could be a much bigger issue in secondary schools, just because of the much bigger admission numbers usually involved

At a local secondary school siblings have priority over all others including SEN which i think is awful!