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"Look at the picture and imagine what the words are."

39 replies

Barbeasty · 29/03/2015 19:13

I'm starting to get concerned about just what DD (4, in reception) is being taught for reading.

At parents' evening a few months ago her teacher came up with a few things which niggled- firstly the classic "it's mostly our good readers who fail the phonics test in year 1", and then saying that they want the children to start just reading words without sounding them out.

Tonight DD was reading a book and said "Look at the picture and imagine what the words are." She then proceeded to guess various words wrong- the for her, and lots of guesses with the ook ending but wrong first letter for cook and look.

Apart from reading with her and strongly encouraging her to sound words out, is there anything else we should be doing?

Her teacher is head of KS1, but not head of literacy. SATs results have been steadily dropping. DD has been bringing home higher level red ort or equivalent books (1 per week.)

OP posts:
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maizieD · 29/03/2015 20:41

Do you know what has actually been covered in the phonics instruction so far?

I'd suggest that you try and get hold of decodable books which use the correspondences she has been taught and use them for reading practice with her. I believe that the subscription service offered by The Reading Chest includes decodable books, if you don't want to buy any.

If she encounters words containing a correspondence she has not yet learned tell her the sound which the unknown correspondence spells. (there is very rarely more than one unkown correspondence in words at that level) she should then be able to sound out the whole word once she knows what that correspondence is. If she is a fast learner she may well remember it in future and not have any more problem with it.

I have just returned from a conference about phonics and reading in which it was pointed out, both by the former phonics advisor to the Dfe, and an Ofsted lead Inspector, that the use of 'other strategies' such as you describe is actually illegal; the new, statutory, English curriculum states that phonics should be THE route into reading, not one route among many...use of guessing stratgies is out.

It's absolute nonsense that 'good readers' fail the phonics scheck. If they misread the words, which good readers should have no problem with, then they are not good readers. Good readers read words accurately. Neither the real words nor the psuedo words used in the check are particularly difficult.

soapboxqueen · 29/03/2015 21:40

MaizieD just out of interest. You said that the teaching of phonics as the only method is statutory as part of the English curriculum. Does this also apply to academies and free schools? I was under the impression that they did not need to follow the curriculum. They could in essence write their own.

maizieD · 29/03/2015 22:36

No, it doesn't apply to academies; presumably not to Free Schools either. They would be wise to follow it in this respect because good, systematic phonics instruction is most likely to lead to the best results. I know that at least one academy chain, Ark (which is very highly regarded) has implemented excellent phonics instruction right from the start.

ReallyTired · 29/03/2015 22:41

If too many children fail the phonics check then the school will be put into special measures.

Flowergirlmum · 29/03/2015 22:47

My daughter was a fluent reader before she started school. She was reading Roald Dahl in year 1. She passed the phonics test....

maizieD · 29/03/2015 22:54

She clearly worked out how phonics 'works' for herself (or did you teach her?) Not a lot of children can do that at such an early age.

2ofstedsin24weeksistakingthep · 29/03/2015 23:25

I was not aware that other strategies were illegal. The new NC states
'Skilled word reading involves both the speedy working out of the pronunciation of unfamiliar printed words (decoding) and the speedy recognition of familiar printed words. Underpinning both is the understanding that the letters on the page represent the sounds in spoken words. This is why phonics should be emphasised in the early teaching of reading to beginners (i.e. unskilled readers) when they start school.'
I interpreted this as meaning that pupils should be supported to develop phonics skills to help decode unfamiliar words, but that a range of strategies would be helpful too. I will definitely ask about this tomorrow.

I work with pupils with SEN and have come to the conclusion that phonics doesn't work for some pupils. Many just don't get the concept and cannot decode unfamiliar words, yet can learn words successfully on sight and read brilliantly with fantastic comprehension. I do worry if only one method of learning to read is legal.

OP could the teacher be trying to support prediction skills rather than getting your DD to guess the words?

mrz · 30/03/2015 08:42

Have you read the Ofsted report "Ready to Read" 2ofstedsin24weeksistakingthep? You might need to revise your interpretation

"During year 1, teachers should build on work from the Early Years Foundation Stage, making sure that pupils can sound and blend unfamiliar printed words quickly and accurately using the phonic knowledge and skills that they have already learnt. Teachers should also ensure that pupils continue to learn new grapheme - phoneme correspondences (GPCs) and revise and consolidate those learnt earlier. The understanding that the letter(s) on the page represent the sounds in spoken words should underpin pupils’ reading and spelling of all words. This includes common words containing unusual GPCs. The term ‘common exception words’ is used throughout the programmes of study for such words." ...

so I think it's clear that children should be taught to decode ALL words until they reach automaticity and not to guess or learn as words as wholes.

thetowpath · 30/03/2015 09:32

I'd recommend Julia Donaldson Songbirds series and Read Write Inc flashcards if you want simple resources to boost phonics at home. The flashcards are quite fun and you can work through the sounds methodically. (Look for the books cheaply on The Book People.) Reading Chest also good at this stage, definitely.

Almostapril · 30/03/2015 09:54

That would really worry me. My reception DD decodes 90 percent of words using phonics and knows about 30 tricky words. She is reading well for her age (yellow Ort level I think - pink red yellow) We read together at bedtime and one school book a week.

Almostapril · 30/03/2015 09:57

If you allow her time in a tablet, pocket phonics ap is very good

mrz · 30/03/2015 10:04

Be aware that pocket phonics doesn't use same method as used in most schools

Almostapril · 30/03/2015 10:07

Mrz I wasn't sure. My DD and DS love it tho and they sound stuff out well. DD is in top reading group and DS is able to identify sounds in words and play eye spy etc despite not yet being in school nursery. It doesn't seem to have confused them - they used it maybe 10-15 mins 4x week

mrz · 30/03/2015 10:10

Also not sure from your post how so called "tricky words" are taught by the school. New curriculum says these should be taught as any other word (not as wholes)

mrz · 30/03/2015 10:14

Almostapril I would use it but be aware and just reinforce how school forms letters (as probably different) and use school mathod when hearing your child read.

Almostapril · 30/03/2015 10:20

Thanks Mrz. We were given a couple of sheets to learn early on. My DD just rote learnt them and uses them with ease now. We weren't actually told how to do it. ( e.g. are, our, where, said, they, was ). They are probably more 'high frequency' words than tricky words. I never questioned it as the school is very high performing on literacy etc (state)

Barbeasty · 30/03/2015 10:38

We've not been given tricky words, although DD has talked about them and I've seen reference to learning high frequency words in her reading journal.

I think one of the comments in isolation and I'd think they were maybe working on fluency, 2 of them and it's coincidence, but put it all together and I'm slightly uneasy.

DD definitely guesses. So if there was a picture of some penguins on an iceberg but the word was elephant, DD would would read penguin. But get her to go back and sound it out and we'd get elephant iyswim.

The school isn't particularly high performing in literacy, and people are starting to leave so I want to make sure we're closing off any gaps with DD. Especially at such a fundamental stage.

OP posts:
maizieD · 30/03/2015 11:26

work with pupils with SEN and have come to the conclusion that phonics doesn't work for some pupils. Many just don't get the concept and cannot decode unfamiliar words, yet can learn words successfully on sight and read brilliantly with fantastic comprehension.

If you're mixing up phonics with guessing strategies how can children who find learning more difficult be expected to make sense of the muddle they're being presented with?

Flowergirlmum · 30/03/2015 12:29

We did phonics with her before she started school using toys, flash cards etc. She used to read to the "little ones" at nursery when she was 3. Actual reading, not guessing etc. My point really was that if your child genuinely is a reader then they will absolutely pass the phonics test- just as an adult would.
Our biggest problem has been negotiating school to ensure she hasn't been held back. Thankfully they've always allowed her to work with much older children for reading/writing etc. She didn't ever go on the school reading system as she was a reader when she arrived in reception. She had always been allowed to take in books from home.

maizieD · 30/03/2015 12:56

My point really was that if your child genuinely is a reader then they will absolutely pass the phonics test- just as an adult would.

Of course Grin Grin

vladthedisorganised · 30/03/2015 13:04

One thing I've noticed in a lot of the reading books is that they'll have a comprehension exercise at the back - 'can you tell the story in your own words' sort of thing.

Might this be the sort of thing that your DD was getting at, OP?

mrz · 30/03/2015 13:49

The story is in the words. The illustrations may support the words or they may tell a completely different story.

Papermover · 30/03/2015 14:01

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Papermover · 30/03/2015 14:07

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howtodrainyourflagon · 30/03/2015 15:45

I'd get a subscription to reading chest for a few months, and make sure you teach your child at home with a phonics-based approach before the school has a chance to do any more damage.