So fed up with maths

[Lamere]

My Y5 child has always struggled with maths, flagged up with school since Y1. Currently my child is on 3B, told with hard work should end year on 3A. Tried Kumon (no help with problem solving) and private tutor fell through. Feel so frustrated as my child has attended this prep since reception and the school seem happy for it to drift along like this, even with children missing maths lessons because of other events. Am I wrong to want my child to come out of primary school with a solid grounding in maths?

I am sorry for you son. Is it bothering him that he is not doing well, or is he just not into math?

You sound upset with the school, but to me it doesn't sound like only the school's issue. Since they flagged it in Y1 - what have they tried to do? I doubt that missing lessons for events is the reason for his results.

If there is no other issues, I have seen kids falling into "I am not good, math is hard" trap and stop trying. You mention that a private tutor fell through - surely there are other tutors out there. A good tutor can find the best way to explain math concepts to your child and show to him that he CAN do it.

In secondary school math would only get harder, so if you can do something about it now, it would make his life easier down the road.

What does his math teacher think is his main issue?

Thanks for your reply MMmomKK. Yes you're right I'm upset with the school, they haven't been proactive at all, give or take a couple of extra exercises sent home in a book. We were the ones that flagged up the issue in Year 1. We have tried to help at home over the years, but it's not enough.

Apparently my child picks up the concepts easily enough and is a whizz at tables, but struggles with remembering them when they are revisited, I wonder if this is another issue? Memory?? Fortunately, they are still really enthusiastic about maths.

I guess more than anything we're really disillusioned with private schooling where you pay a fortune yet have to look to tutors to supplement. I have another child who goes to a private secondary and they have clubs to help children who are struggling. Wish the prep school would do the same.

Hi there Lamere. Is your son ok at other subjects? Is it just maths? Does he struggle say with left and right, tables of info etc? Could be something that requires school to look at closely and offer appropriate intervention.
As this is a prep school and you are paying for education they need to do more I feel...

So, if he works hard he should end up with a 3A end y5.
This would then turn into a 4c or possibly 4b end y6.
Isn't that bang on 'expected'?

So is he really struggling, or just struggling compared with others in class? He may not be a whizz, but he doesn't sound too bad either to me.

My y11 DD doesn't remember maths very well. The only thing I have found is to re-visit topics very regularly, and especially review the basics of concepts with her before they start building on them (school publishes maths planning so it has been very easy to do).

There is currently an argument about whether we should switch to a "mastery" approach to maths teaching, where each topic is consolidated with a lot of practice before moving on to another one. So no "spiralling" round from topic to topic. Instead, previous topics are occasionally revisited through low stakes testing, which has been shown to be a very good way of embedding knowledge long-term (this is called "spaced practice".

This appears to be what they do in the most successful countries re PISA maths. This appears also to be a better approach for children who have trouble remembering what they've learned long term via the current system.

You might want to consider trying to get a tutor who will take this approach, starting from as far back in the curriculum as is necessary, but asking the tutor to set enough homework so you can have a short session of practice every day. If your child sees himself being successful and gradually mastering each topic, rather than being rushed onto another one he will struggle with, this could also address any problem with his morale.

So what does the school say? as a PP have said 3A at the end of Y5 is bang on expected level, which sounds good for a child who struggles with maths. Have you seen steady progress through his time there?

Thanks for all your replies - very helpful. No we've not seen steady progress, last year they had a shocking teacher and that was a real setback, plus I seen tests from y3 where DC was consistently getting same type of question wrong but no one was picking it up. Let's say I lack faith in the school's maths teaching.

Lamere - this sounds terrible. Does he have to sit 11+ next year or does your school go to 13?

If you are doing 11+ , then unfortunately, you don't have much choice and a good tutor is the only way to go. I shouldn't be like this, but many people in preps, at least here in London do use tutors, especially in the last year before the exams.

If you suspect he might have some memory issues - is there a way to check it out?

I hope you get to the bottom of this! Good luck.

Kesstrel, you are right. I have always feel DS2's math has been rushed through. Teacher go through each topic very quickly, there are not much practice follow up. Although DS2 is in top group, he is doing 3 digit number adding or deducting,but when I give him a few simple question about 2 digit numbers, it takes him a while to work out.

While I was in school(another country), teacher teach you a topic, you do a few practice, then you have home work to practice on this topic,teacher will mark it and give it back. So you have the chance to practice the wrong one. Then you have monthly test to see if you have mastered everything. Then there is half term test, end of term test. You can revise what you got wrong. Only we you have solid foundation, you move on.

Kesstrel, you are absolutely right - I get so frustrated with the way topics are rushed through -my DD still doesn't have a secure understanding of things like dividing by 100 which is purely down to lack of practice as she understands the basic concept. We are doing extra maths work with her at the moment on teacher's request as she thinks she can get a Level 5 in SATS with a little "push". So she's certainly not incapable of doing well in Maths - just let down by an overcrowded curriculum.

Cloud2: That's how I was taught maths as well. And it is also what cognitive psychologists who study learning believe is likely to work best. There is a real problem in this country with recognising that some children need more practice than they typically get. The dominant "philosophy" of learning in our schools of education appears to believe that practice should be minimised because it is allegedly boring and will supposedly kill children's interest in learning. They also argue that practice should be "authentic" - that is, in story problems. But psychologists will tell you this causes problems with working memory overload for many children, besides meaning that more time is spent reading and visualising the problem than is actually spent practising the maths.

HPFA: I don't think this can be blamed on an overcrowded curriculum: it's more down to the "spiral" approach popularised by the Numeracy Strategy back in 1998, where children circle round the same set of topics, with a brief stop at each one, over and over and over. There is no reason why a mastery approach should take up any more curriculum time: it's just that the time is distributed in a different way. Good luck with the extra maths work!

This >If there is no other issues, I have seen kids falling into "I am not good, math is hard" trap and stop trying. You mention that a private tutor fell through - surely there are other tutors out there. A good tutor can find the best way to explain math concepts to your child and show to him that he CAN do it.

I am a tutor and have seen umpteen students in the type of situation you describe. My experience of independent schools is that they often adopt a more formal "chalk and talk" approach to learning and do less with manipulatives etc than many state schools. The more formal approach does not suit some children. Independent schools do not automatically have better teachers and better methods of teaching than state schools. Small class sizes can also mean that the teacher is tempted to teach the whole class together rather than differentiating work and this can cause problems too! I also agree with the previous statements about problems with the "spiral" approach.

It does seem that your son could do with more regular practice of things than he is currently getting and a good tutor who can tailor teaching and homework to your son's specific needs could be really useful.

Kesstrel - thank you, that is so interesting. I had assumed that the reason for so little practice was that there was too much to get through - I had no idea of this "spiral" approach.
I enjoy doing the maths with DD - but it just annoys me (and is frustrating for her) that she so obviously just needed a bit more practice at many of the topics.

I will give you my standard Numeracy information, which is really for much younger pupils, but going back over it may possibly help a bit. One would think that Maths should be 'easier' than Literacy, because it concerns real facts, that are either right or wrong, but if the basics are not understood, then more difficult topics can seem impossible:

?Practical things are best for grasping number concepts - bricks, Lego, beads, counters, money, shapes, weights, measuring, cooking.

Do adding, taking away, multiplication (repeated addition), division (sharing), using REAL OBJECTS as just 'numbers' can be too abstract for some children.

Number Bonds of Ten forms the basis of much maths, so try to learn them. Using Lego or something similar, use a LOT of bricks (of just TWO colours, if you have enough) lay them out so the pattern can be seen of one colour INCREASING while the other colour DECREASES. Lay them down, or build up like steps.

So:

ten of one colour none of other
nine of one colour one of other
eight of one colour two of other
seven of one colour three of other

etc,

then of course, the sides are equal at 5 and 5; after which the colours 'swap over' as to increasing/decreasing.

To learn TABLES, do them in groups that have a relationship, thus:

x2, x4, x8

x3, x6, x12

5 and 10 are easy

7 and 9 are rather harder.

Starting with TWO times TABLE, I always say: "Imagine the class is lining up in pairs; each child will have a partner, if there is an EVEN number in the class. If one child is left without a partner, then the number is ODD, because an odd one is left out."

Use Lego bricks again, lay them out in a column of 2 wide to learn 2x table. Go half way down the column, and move half the bricks up, so that now the column is 4 bricks wide. That gives the start of 4x table.

Then do similar things with 3x and 6x.

With 5x, try and count in 'fives', and notice the relationship with 'ten' - they will alternate, ending in 5 then 10.

It is important to try and UNDERSTAND the relationships between numbers, and not just learn them 'by rote'.

An inexpensive solar powered calculator (no battery to run out!) can help learn tables by 'repeated addition'. So: enter 2+2 and press = to give 4. KEEP PRESSING = and it should add on 2 each time, giving 2 times table.

There are good web sites, which can be fun to use :

www.ictgames.com/

www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/page/default.asp?title=Woodlands%20Junior%20School&pid=1