Dog bite while my child was on a school visit to the park next to the school.

[Bigmom04]

Can anyone help me, my 6 year old daughter was bitten by a dog today after the school decided to take the class out to the local woods/park. There was 3 adults supervising 24 children, ages 6-7 years old. In the group there were also 3 children with extra support needs. Is this ratio legal? Thankfully the dog just broke the skin on my child's arm but it has left both my child and I traumatised. Also, I was not even made aware that they go on these regular outing were dog walkers tend to exercise the dogs off leads. Apparently there was about 10 dogs off the leads today when this incident happened.
As I'm writing this I'm in shock and extremely emotional and only joined mumsnet just a minute ago, as I really don't know what to do. Over the last 18 months I have raised a number of concerns around child safe guard issues. I currently have a complaint in the process of being looked at by the educational funding agency as the school didn't have a complaints procedure and they had my child and 4 other children cleaning the toilets of the school! ( I know you really couldn't make this up!) To date despite almost 7 weeks passing I still haven't received a response to my complaint from the head teacher. It's probably no surprise that the school is already on special measures and is being monitored by Ofsted. I feel powerless as to what to do, this latest event could have meant that I lost my child today or she could of been badly mauled. They lost complete control of the class I understand another child in the group was chased by two bigger dogs crying and screaming. No doubt he will be mentally scared for life. The school is a academy so the local authority are saying that they have no jurisdiction but I don't think I am exaggerating when I say they are putting not just my child but other children's lives at risk. Im not an advocate of people losing their jobs but the head really isn't 'fit for purpose', and he needs to go. Does anyone have advice about what else I can do or other authorities that I can go to? Please help....

There is no ratio set out by law. Schools are expected to make decisions based on the type of activity and age of children. Unless the 3 children with SEN require full time support a ratio of 1:8 would be considered adequate for a walk in a local park.

I'm so sorry for what happened to your DC.

Trips to a local park are not unusual for schools and I think your anger is somewhat misdirected. The owner of the dog is to blame. Have you contacted the police? Has the school contacted the police? The owner should be prosecuted.

I imagine that the school will probably discontinue the visits until irresponsible dog owners can control their dogs.

As I understand it the ratio is 1:8 at that age group so technically they were ok. However, it depends on what the additional support needs of the 3 pupils you mention are and if they have statements. I would take my class out locally with that ratio but there aren't any additional needs.

When she started did you sign a blanket permission for local walks? If so, the school didn't need to ask permission separately for this trip. I regularly take mine out locally on that basis. I always ask for extra parent helpers though to be on the safe side.

The school should either have a risk assessment for local walks or have carried out a separate risk assessment for this trip. Ask to see it. I would guess they didn't do one and that's what you need to pursue them on. They should have had a plan for what to do in the case of dogs

My school is in a very rural area and most of the class have dogs. Whenever we go on a walk the parent helpers ask if they can bring their dogs along (save them doing another walk later). I always say no because I would need written permission from every parent for dogs to be there and I don't have it. I know one of the children is scared of dogs, so the dogs don't attend. Simples.

It sounds like your daughter had a very scary experience and everyone had a narrow escape. Is there an academy chain toucan complain to? Failing that, Nicky Mirgan? Go for them on the risk assessment thing - the situation you describe is what risk assessments are written to prevent. (And if the skin is broken, keep a very very close eye out for any signs of infection and get antibiotics ASAP).

What year are they? I looked it up recently and I believe the ratio should be 1:6 in KS1 and goes up to 1:8 in KS2.

Also, are they allowed to take children out of school without permission? We had a trip in Reception that involved going to the Juniors, didn't cross any roads but out of the infants site, into the juniors next door and we still had to do permission slips and there were about 5 or 6 parent helpers (higher ration for Early Years).

Group leaders should assess the risks and consider an appropriate safe supervision level for their particular group. There should be a minimum of one teacher in charge.

In addition to the teacher in charge there should be enough supervisors to cope effectively with an emergency. When visits are to remote areas or involve hazardous activities, the risks may be greater and supervision levels should be set accordingly. The same consideration should be given to visits abroad or residential visits. Some non-residential visits with mixed groups will need a teacher from each sex."

This guidance was taken from the 1998 document: Health and Safety of Pupils on Educational Visits.

There aren't any set ratios each LEA/school set their own and the ratio will vary according to the age of children and type of activity.

The ratio sounds correct - although if you didn't sign a permission slip either for that particular walk or for all local trips then you could make a formal complaint on that basis.

Personally I would recognise that the experience was scary, work with my child to overcome any fear and go after the bastard who didn't keep their dog under control - as opposed to being angry with the school (which was simply trying to give the children a nice experience)

You should check DC tetanus is up to date - at least I think that's somethign you need to do when bitten by a dog.

As others have said, blame the dogs, not the school. I am a child minder and have a emergency plan in case one of the children I look after gets bitten by a dog, and it's high on my list of risks as I take children to local park and forest nearly every day. I get seriously annoyed with dog owners. If I was in your shoes, I would write to the local press and work together with the school to ensure that the teachers are risk assessing the walks/dogs on a regular basis, that it would be part of their risk assessment to have one adult scanning the park every ten minutes to check if some dogs are off the leads and ask the owners to put a lead on their dog. I do this regularly and many dog owners are understanding, others give me lots of sh~~ but I tell them anyway.

In my risk assessment is also included that I will take a photo of the dog and the dog owner, the bite, call the police (and ambulance) if the bite has broken the skin, and call the parents immediately to get the child to hospital.

Thank you all so much for all your comments. I have now had the opportunity to get some more details from the other mothers who's children are in the same class as my daughter and the school. There were apparently up to 14-15 dogs off their leads and under the supervision of 3 dog walkers. The teacher didn't know that my child had been bitten until my daughter told the teacher. This to me clearly illustrates that the teacher ratio was no sufficient and they lost control of the whole situation.
According to Ofsted guidance, there should be a 1-6 ratio of care for my daughters age group but this does not take into account the 3 children who are even more vulnerable than the other 21 children including my daughter. 2 of SN children need to be supervised 100% of the time, so the ratio was apparently way out. I welcome the children being taken out of the school but adequate supervision MUST be in place and that clearly wasn't the case in this instance. I totally agree that ultimately it was the fault of the totally irresponsible dog handlers but the school did not carry out a sufficient risk assessment and provide adequate care to safe guard the children. Hence they put all 24 children at risk.

So have you been in touch with the Police re the dog bite? Has the school?

Who told you there were 14-15 dogs off their leads? What did the teaching staff do?

I'd be wary of taking a 6 yr old's interpretation oif the number of dogs loose and supervision in isolation. It must have been scary for dd and the other children who witnessed it. What has the school said?

Actually that number of dogs with few owners wouldn't surprise me at all. Round here there are lots of dog walking services (think 1 walker with 6 dogs off the leash and no control at all). Get 3 of them together in an open space and its a doggy free for all.

The ratio is fine and (probably) you signed a blanket authority for local walks when DD started at the school.

IMO the dog bite, while terrible, was caused by the dog owner/walker and couldn't have been predicted by the school. It could have happened if you were there 121 with her.

It does however, sound like there are lots of issues at the school, cleaning toilets as punishment?!! I generally support the school 100% but I'd be thinking about a move.

The dog bite could have happened when you were with your child
You need to report it to the police or the local dog warden
As for cleaning toilets, you don't know what happened. You were not there. I am surprised the head hasn't responded to your complaint.
Did the children make a mess and have to clean it up as punishment? I've done that before with preschoolers.
I really do think you are just looking for things to complain about. You need to find another school

As the school is an academy, the LA is correct in saying it has very limited juristriction over what they do. If you want to complain you need to check out the procedures with the Department of Education as academies are directly managed.

In terms of the whether the adult to child ratio was adequate and the risk sees scents robust, it would depend on whether the staff were aware there was likely to be dogs off the lead in the area and whether any of the children with SEN need one to one supervision. You can ask to see a copy if the risk assessment for the trip from the school. Have you spoken to the school about the incident yet?

There is no official ratio iirr, but the one you say in OP sounds about right for many schools.

Normally, for local short trips it is covered in a "cover all" type agreement that you sign when your child first starts at the school. It means school don't have to seek permission for every trip outside the school gates if within a certain area.

You're blaming the wrong people completely.

There's a legal obligation on dog owners and walkers to have them under control, if a bite occurred then they were dangerously out of control and that is a criminal offence.

I've had children "clean the toilets" - i.e. pick up the four packs full of toilet paper squares they deliberately threw around the entire area. I wonder if the OPs situation is similar?

I'm also curious about this part of the OP - "Im not an advocate of people losing their jobs but the head really isn't 'fit for purpose', and he needs to go." ... Whilst I am really sorry the OP's child got hurt I wonder how she makes that value judgement?

TBF to OP AsBright, the head is running a school in special measures, although actually, isn't that the first thing that usually changes when a school goes into SM, so maybe he didn't put them there?

Thanks again for taking the time to give comments. When my 2 children started going to this school 4 years ago, the school had the same HT and has only recently gone into special measures following a Ofsted inspection. I only discovered it had gone into special measures while looking for the schools complaints procedure after the toilet cleaning incident. As parents we were not informed and it was not published by the school.
In relation to the toilet incident, the toilets were left in a bad state by the entire school. As my daughter class is situated in the same building as the school toilets and the dinner hall. The children were shown pictures of the toilets, the teacher then asked for volunteers to clean them. As none of the children volunteered, the 5 children who remained for after school club, (my daughter being 1 of them) were asked to clean the toilets. They were given sponges and left unsupervised to clean the toilet! This fact has been acknowledged by the HT and we have since been told it should not have happened and will not happen again. THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE to me.
Contrary to Insancerre comments, I take NO joy in writing complaints, I have better things to do with my time. But when your two children come home with marks to their face, or developing ticks due to anxiety, begin soiling themselves at school. (Something that they never do at home). Something is seriously wrong and it is my duty to protect my children.
The dog incident has been reported to the police and dog warden and as I have already stated in my previous comments, I too blame the irresponsible dog walkers. BUT, I do not know what the dog walkers look like or the dog that bit my daughter so I am at a extreme disadvantage. It was the school teacher that told me there was 15 dogs, my daughter thought there were about 10. The school also informed me that they are regular dog walkers who often frequent the park and they have apparently had problem with them before. So my mind then turns to school and if they knew there had been problems in the past, isn't it their duty to manage the risks and not put our children in a high risk situation? I believe taking all the evidence into account so far, that's what they sadly did. Without going into every incident that has occurred over the past 3 years. I have given the school every opportunity to improve issues, that I and some other concerned parents have raised. Unlike some of the other mothers, I patiently waited to see some improvements but sadly they never came in fact things have got much worse, no doubt resulting in the special measures. It is no coincidence that at the time my son left his class, there were only 14 children left in a class of 30. This clearly illustrates to me that I am not alone in my opinions. It's so sad as my daughter is very attached to her friends, which is why I have tried to hold on in the hope to see change and improvements but the last few incidents of which I have only highlighted 2, have now gone to far. There was no risk assessment on the day, in fact when I asked the HT just gave me one that he pulled off the wall! It still has blue tack on it!!! No incident report given to me, I had to chase the HT for it the next day. When I did receive it, it noted that the incident occurred at 11.45am, yet I was not called until 12.56pm! 1 whole hour afterward. The park is situated a 5 minute walk from the school. So why did they take over 1 hour to call me after the dog had bitten my daughter.!! This is totally unacceptable. Hence I am now applying for a urgent school transfer for my daughter. But this doesn't take away the risk for the other children who remain, something has to be done about the school, it is not being run properly. I'm just one of many concerned parents.

Final comment - if I went into a park and I saw 14 dogs off their leads and only 1 dog on a lead. I would pick up my child and walk straight out again. Also, due to Barnet council cut back, Barnet has not signed up to the legislative powers that some other councils have. So the dog warden informed me that he is limited in his powers to act. If this had happened in Islington the dog walkers could be prosecuted for not having the dogs on a leads in a public place and under control but as we are in Barnet apparently the dog warden is powerless to act.
Once I have settled my daughter and recovered from this nightmare affair, I will be turning to Barnet council to see if I can lobby for a change.

Has your DD seen a doctor? Dogs' mouths are full of bacteria and bites can get infected.