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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Parents evening from hell

95 replies

Muskey · 05/03/2015 19:18

Just been to the parents evening from hell. DD is in year 6. Her level expectation for English is 4b not bad I hear you say. However at the end of year 5 she was level 5b/c. Is it me or should children move forward not backwards should I go back to speak to the teacher or is just something that happens. DD is very rude and stroppy at the moment is this something to do with it

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

base9 · 05/03/2015 20:54

Well, rest assured that her Sats levels do not matter at all.
Make a deal with her: get her to spend a couple of hours over Easter researching some topic of her own choosing. Fashion, a pop star, football, Mayan mathematical acheivements... whatever really interests her. Have her write about 2 full pages about her topic and tell her this really needs to be the best work she is capable of. Read it over. Have your sister read it over. Is the research sound? Is the grammar and spelling largely correct? Does it read well and follow a logical order? It will let you know if she can produce great academic work when she is motivated to do so. And it will remind her that there is academic life beyond sats.

Original poster

Muskey · 05/03/2015 20:58

Thank you base that is a good idea. Funnily enough she has just done a fantastic piece on Ben nevis. The research she has done is amazing

OP posts:

icklekid · 06/03/2015 05:47

Whilst the level doesn't mean anything in reality I would be concerned if my ds just couldn't be bothered as that work ethic isn't going to help in secondary at all...

Feenie · 06/03/2015 07:01

How refreshing to read Raven's post as a welcome antidote to all the 'SATS don't matter, they're only for the school' posts we see on threads like these - explains in a nutshell why this just isn't true.

I agree that you need a second meeting with the teacher to explore exactly what is going on here and to make a plan of action where you work together to help your dd.

Cantdecideondinner · 06/03/2015 08:53

Raven I couldn't agree more. I also pushed my eldest hard to achieve the best SAT results he could as I knew he was able and I also knew that the school was more than happy with him meeting their overall targets and weren't that concerned what he as an individual was capable of. I knew that he was capable if being in the top sets at secondary rather than having a lovely time looking out if the window and dosing along in the middle sets. I was right, he's in the top sets for everything and absolutely flying, he's happy, engaged and motivated and he was put in those sets due to his SAT's results as well as his CAT's and yes, despite being told that you can't revise for CAT's he did plenty of verbal, non verbal and quantative reasoning practice.

Miggsie · 06/03/2015 08:59

I suspect she is bright and bored?
I found English very very boring until A level, where I excelled.
It's very prescriptive and dull and I sat there thinking "why am I doing this crap?" and the work now is even more dull and boring than the stuff I did.

DD went the same way with maths - we moved her to another school where they taught at her level (madly above average) but a lot of schools aren't geared up for this.

I think there's 2 approaches: reason with DD to do as well as she can even if it's boring; ask the school to come up with more inventive and engaging English strategies.

Original poster

Muskey · 06/03/2015 09:48

Thank you miggsie and can't decide. I do believe she is bored (not that is an excuse) and she must take some responsibility for her actions or lack of effort in this case. But it does make you wonder how do teachers actually make something like English interesting. If you have a passion for history, art, music etc then you will always find something to keep going. DD has a flair for writing but the creative side of English is not really being targeted at the moment with the result she is not engaging

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Whensmyturn · 07/03/2015 07:39

I think you have to face the fact that giving a child a level for their work is not an exact science. The measures are quite arbitrary really and often fail to identify or distinguish between quite small differences in progress. Therefore I child can easily look like they aren't progressing. It's a nonsense attaching numbers like this to Emglish work. However it is a useful tool the majority of the time for tracking progress. It allows you to disuss the matter with your daughter.

mummytime · 07/03/2015 08:49

Okay - a different slant.
Your DD's behaviour is off recently? And she isn't woking at school?
Is there anything else going on in her life? Anything she is worried about? Nastiness at school? New friends?
It could be partly hormones, but there could be something else going on.

If it is very recent, are there any issues with the senior school she has got into?

Maybe she is feeling stressed by school so has developed a "I might as well not work as I won't do well however much I try" attitude.

pieceofpurplesky · 07/03/2015 09:02

SATs levels DO matter. They will determine te set your daughter is in all through high school. If your daughter is allegedly bored now imagine what she will be like in a set way below her ability? If she behaved like she is now and puts no effort in she will not move up.
All the people saying it doesn't matter and she is bored at are setting her up to fail ...
Firstly she should be working bored or not - finish the work as best she can and then ask for more. Secondly being bored is no excuse for bad behaviour. Finally work with the school so she is not in the mentality that she will fail from day one.
If she is not working and misbehaving now it needs to be dealt with - she has a long way to go.
Secondary Englush teacher here too.

clam · 07/03/2015 09:16

Thanks Raven. I too get frustrated by the number of people on here who keep saying that SATs don't matter and are just for testing the school, not the children. Sure, the school gets judged on them, but they DO matter for kids for secondary. Even if the secondaries re-assess in Y7 and shift sets around, the raw data from Y6 is still what is used for GCSE targets.

DD got accepted into a more academically rigorous selective sixth form based on her GCSE targets, which were in turn based on her Y6 SATs. didn't make all those targets however!

mummytime · 07/03/2015 09:16

pieceofpurplesky - that is*rubbish maybe at the school where you teach - then SATs are the only evidence used for setting - but not all schools work like that.

My DD got frankly disappointing grades in SATs (not that bad just below her ability). I (and she) blame me for taking my eye of the ball and not realising how much things had slipped since her brother 2 years before.
The only real consequence at secondary is that now she is sitting GCSE, a lot of her "target" grades are too low, and below her "current" grades.

I also hope that you don't just write off your students like that.

clam · 07/03/2015 09:19

Purple isn't writing students off - the opposite, surely? She's saying how important it is to work hard and not switch off saying it's "boring."

RC1234 · 07/03/2015 09:25

I went through a similar phase at school and what turned it around for me was that my mother sat me down and asked why and told me that she was going to speak to the school. As it happened I had been bullied the year before and to prevent it happening again I was trying to make out that I was all tough and part of that involved mucking around in class. My Mum told the school all of this. She also made me redo all the rubbish work in my own time. This cured me for good.

SomewhereIBelong · 07/03/2015 09:27

Our secondary did not look at sats results for setting - they taught mixed ability (revised what they SHOULD know) from Sept start until one week before October half term break, then tested and set them.

clam · 07/03/2015 09:32

How do you know they didn't look at them? They should have done. For example, when they re-tested them, they ought to have compared them with the originals and identified any anomalies, to keep a specific eye out.

But sets are a side issue as they can, or should be flexible. The thing is, SATs grades are still being used for GCSE targets.

Original poster

Muskey · 07/03/2015 09:36

Mummy time thanks for your post. Having been through a very bad bullying experience in year 3 and 4 (and as a result having to move schools because of it) I am confident that she has no friendship issues now. There is nothing different at home.

Thank you piece of purple I agree with what you are saying whole heartedly and have said this to dd in as many different ways as I can. Tbh I am more appalled by her rudeness than the level. I am a strong believer in working hard whereas dd wants to coast. I can not change her genetic makeup but I can encourage, support, help and yes even shout if I think it helps.

OP posts:

mummytime · 07/03/2015 09:42

I would be surprised if any girl in year 6 has "no friendship issues". It is well known as a very turbulent year.
If she has been bullied in the past she could be clinging on to friendships which are changing.

It is a very tricky age to parent - and some of the attitude may just wash out at secondary.

If possible I would try to spend some time with her 1 to 1, doing something fun. And then see if she can open up about how she feels, without commenting or supplying solutions. Sometimes as a parent the best thing you can do is listen whilst biting your tongue.

Another good thing is to make sure she has some out of school interests with different people from school.

Finally could she be worried that any of the children who bullied her will be at the same senior school?

mrz · 07/03/2015 09:48

Purple us correct her GCSE targets will be based on KS2 test results. This has nothing to do with individual schools.

mummytime · 07/03/2015 10:27

Purple is incorrect that SATs results will necessarily determine which set she is in. I believe other testing can be sued to modify "target" grades, and there is also availability to an aspirational grade - which may more accurately reflect ability.

mrz · 07/03/2015 10:36

You believe wrongly internal tests can be and are used to set but it is the national tests that are used by the government to set GCSE targets.
It can be argued that a low target is beneficial fir the secondary school as exceeding this will make them look good.

Callooh · 07/03/2015 10:52

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Feenie · 07/03/2015 10:55

Purple is incorrect that SATs results will necessarily determine which set she is in.

No, she really isn't - it very much depends on the school. We have two local secondarily which set purely on SAT results.

gymboywalton · 07/03/2015 10:56

my son left primary with a level 4 across the board i think
he is now predicted a or a* in every single subject

he left key stage 3 with a high 6 or a 7 in everything

yes his initial targets were based on his sats scores however they have been adjusted as he has shown his true ability

SunnyBaudelaire · 07/03/2015 11:00

that is interesting ravenAK. If a child came from a school that did not do SATS as such, would they still have been given a 'level'?

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