In-year admission and Catholic Appeal -help!

[ProjectLegato]

We are relocating to an area an hour away from where our children currently attend a catholic primary. We have applied to the school serving the parish we will be living in but they have rejected our application based on the school being full in line with their admissions policy of 30. I found out that reception has 30 and the year 3 has 34 pupils currently

We have a letter from our priest to confirm we are practicing Catholics and our children were baptised Catholic as babies. i am appealing on the grounds of seeking a catholic education which cannot be offered by any other school nearby - will this be strong enough at appeal? Will this enable the infant admission to be deemed as an "excepted pupil" ? Our children will be out of education until this is sorted as the relocation is too far to continue where they are . They have to go to school somewhere .......but i feel we would be prejudiced if they cannot continue in a catholic education so there is no other option for us

Anyone else been through the catholic appeal process that can share their experiences? Thanks

I don't think you have a leg to stand on. There is no reason why a Catholic child cannot attend a community school. In fact lots of Catholics choose community schools. Their children are still able to take first communion.

Do you really want your child in a class of 35? It wouldn't be fair on the other kids.

You won't have any chance with an appeal for a reception place. You may win a Year 3 appeal which would then make your reception child higher up the waiting list.

The Reception appeal will be an infant class size case. This means you can only win if:

• the admission arrangements were flawed and this cost your child a place

• the admission arrangements were incorrectly applied and this cost your child a place

• the decision to refuse admission was unreasonable

I'm afraid none of these apply in this situation. As this is an in year admission it is extremely unlikely that there is any basis for arguing that the admission arrangements are flawed or were incorrectly applied. I'm afraid a Catholic school refusing admission when it is already full is not acting unreasonably. You can still appeal but you need to be realistic about your chances of success. The only way you will win for Reception will be if you are lucky enough to get a sympathetic appeal panel that is willing to bend the rules for you.

Normally you would stand a better chance with an appeal for your Y3 child but with 34 in the class already I would have to say that it is a long shot. Most appeal panels would be unhappy admitting a 35th pupil to a class. Even if the class was smaller your desire for a Catholic education isn't really strong enough grounds. And saying you will keep your children out of education until you get a place at a Catholic school is likely to alienate the panel. It will feel like you are trying to blackmail them into giving you a place. That won't directly result in your appeal failing but it could mean the panel is less likely to give you the benefit of any doubt. You need to find other grounds for appeal. Look for activities offered by the Catholic school that are not available at the offered school and that would be particularly relevant to your child.

However, based on the information you have given my view is that you are likely to lose both appeals. You therefore need to consider a plan B. You could home educate or you could send them to a non-Catholic school with places. But simply keeping your children out of education until places become available at the Catholic school is not an option. It would be unfair on your children and could result in the LA taking legal action against you.

Are you wanting a particular catholic secondary school? Sending a child to a community school is really not the end of the world. What are your choices? Would you consider a church of england school if there were places?

Loads of RC children go to non RC schools. There is no requirement for the LA to provide a specific faith education. They will offer you the nearest school with places and you can go on wait lists.

I am not purposefully leaving them out of school to be awkward I am moving house and no schools have places -they are all full so what option do I have as their old school is over an hour away. I have spoken to the local authority and they understand this to be reasonable until they are placed. The local authority also have no involvement in the appeal as the Diocese manage their own appeals so I have to appeal and stick to my guns and seek exception as we have moved into the area -if they refuse then I will have no other option than to put them in a mainstream school and go through the process all over again as they are all full (I have rung 7 so far) so how does this ever get resolved as they will all claim the same reason for rejection? Does anyone know?

My children have to go to school -so one of them has to let us in so I may as well try for a faith school? my daughter is in an outstanding school and has 37 in her current class it's down to pupil teacher ratio not the number of bums on seats? The new school is also outstanding and our old school gets the same results so we are not likely to prejudice the education of existing students in my view

The LA where you are moving HAS to find you a school place, albeit it may not be in the school you would have chosen yourself. The only reason they are not finding you a place now is because you have told them that you will Home Ed until a space comes available from a waiting list.

I am Catholic and my children have gone to Faith schools which was our wish. However, had we not managed to get places at a Faith school I cannot see that their faith or lives would have been in any way disadvantaged. How exactly do you think they will have been prejudiced against? They will go to church on Sundays, attend other available Sunday school/messy church/prayer group etc activities as offered by the parish. You will pray at home with them, they will attend First Communion classes outside of school (you must already be aware that those don't take place in school time anyway). I am struggling to see the problem and I agree with everyone else that this is not strong grounds for an appeal.

I think you need to apply to every school in reasonable distance. If you can show that no school within two miles has a place then your case for appeal will be stronger. It is not reasonable to expect a family to travel 1 hour each way to school. In those circumstances the fair access protocol might mean you would get a place at the Catholic school.

This is helpful - can you explain more about what fair access protocol is?

The Fair Access Protocol is used by the LA to admit difficult to place children at schools even if they are already full. One of the categories of children covered is those moving into the area when there is no place within a reasonable distance from home. Your Reception child would be classed as excepted if there are no schools with places within a reasonable distance which means they wouldn't count towards the infant class size limit.

As Unexpected says, the LA MUST find places for your children. However, if they invoke the FAP they will place your children at whichever school is best able to handle additional pupils which may not be a school you would choose. There is also no guarantee they will place both children at the same school. So the FAP will ensure your children get a place but not necessarily at the Catholic school you want.

Having said that, if you have applied properly and the LA has failed to come up with a place before the appeal you should definitely make that part of your case. There is no guarantee but the panel may feel that the LA's failure is good reason to admit your children.

FAP exists to ensure LEAs place all children who require a place, most usually those who are deemed "hard to place" - for example those who have been excluded from another school, travellers, those who move into the borough at short notice. It can also be used to place children when there is no alternative space within a reasonable distance, which for under 8s is generally about 2 miles/45 mins, for 8-11 3 miles or a bit over an hour. So your children might fit.

However. It is not a pass into a school of your choice. Children will be placed in the schools best placed to take another pupil, which is very unlikely to be one with 34 pupils in a class. You might be lucky and get your youngest in which would probably make your eldest a sibling, but this is absolutely not guaranteed.

I am sure your lea must have a similar document

m.hertsdirect.org/docs/pdf/admissions/fap2

You may have to wait nearer the start of term, as a place may become available for whatever reason. You need to find out where you are on the waiting list, in fact contact the school on a regular basis to find out if you have moved up. Are you in London?

Our appeal date is set so if anyone knows what questions I be could be asked at the appeal let me know thanks

No-one can know what questions you will be asked. There is no set script that appeal panels use. They will probe the strength of your case.

As it stands from what you have said there is little to no chance that you will win an admission appeal, because of the infant class size regulations.

However there was a case that came from the Local Government Ombudman last year in May which I believe may be of some help. You fit the criteria that you are a family moving into the area, that the infant class size regs would apply and that there is no school within reasonable distance. What a reasonable distance is has not been agreed but 2 miles may be considered an appropriate distance.

Under those circumstances the LA should consider that your child in reception be considered an excepted pupil. Under such circumstances any decision to refuse admission cannot be based on infant class size. It must be based on other prejudice reasons such as overcrowding, small class rooms etc.

What the LGO goes on to say is that the admission authority should adopt a set procedure, which I suspect will not have been followed as this judgement is still not well known.

This does not mean you get a free pass to get a place at your chosen school, it means that any appeal for a reception child should be a normal prejudice case under the circumstances suggested. AS such you might or might not win an appeal based on normal prejudice.

Thanks this is helpful -as ALL the schools are full they have to go somewhere the LA can't even offer us an interim option as they are all full - is this an unusual situation? We have moved into an area where this issue is in the local paper almost weekly yet new house builds are being granted planning and there are 100 new houses being built nearby so the issue will continue we have checked with the LA other schools as a back up in a 3 mile radius and they are all full

It happens far too often but it is unacceptable if you have already relocated. The LA should have used the FAP (mentioned earlier) to find places for your children. However these places do not have to be at Catholic schools nor do they both have to be at the same school.

Once you have provided the required proof that you are moving into the area (this varies from LA to LA but if you are buying a house a solicitor's letter confirming exchange of contracts is commonly accepted) the LA must come up with places. If you have not yet provided that proof or are not in a position to do so the LA does not have to come up with places as your children are currently attending schools that are within a reasonable distance of your present home.

Are you moving within the same Local Authority?

The local authority have now offered our children places in the same school which is an outstanding school but not a catholic one so we are still appealing
Today we were offered a place in reception at the Catholic school for my youngest daughter so the appeal we are about to go to is now only for my oldest daughter in year 3. Does having a sibling in school strengthen our appeal case and or not ? Do you think is it likely we will be successful or not? Any help would be appreciated
I can only assume someone has left and that's why the school have offered the reception place but they must know I will push hard now that one of them has a place??

Does having a sibling in school strengthen our appeal case and or not

It should not make any difference unless you can show that your older daughter will be disadvantaged through not attending the same school as her younger sibling. You would need independent expert evidence to support such an argument.

Whether or not they know you will push hard is irrelevant. If a place became available in Reception and your daughter was at the head of the waiting list they had to offer it to you.

My previous advice on your appeal for your older daughter still stands. With 34 in the class already it is unlikely you will succeed. Your desire for your daughter to have a Catholic education is a very weak case. Even if you had a stronger case the appeal panel is unlikely to be willing to take the class up to 35 pupils. You may strike it lucky but I think you should work on the basis that you are likely to lose this appeal. Sorry.

So the appeal took place last Wednesday and today we received confirmation that we won!

Thanks to those who offered some good and helpful advice and the comments that said you've got no chance, you haven't got a leg to stand on or your case to attend a catholic school is weak -these were not so helpful. I think anyone seeking to appeal should stick to the guns and do good preparation -we built a solid case and we asked the right questions ahead of the appeal.

Well done.

I'm sorry if you thought my comments were unhelpful. I was simply being realistic. Appeals when there are already 34 in the class rarely win. However, rarely is not the same as never. I am pleased that you succeeded.