concern after parent interview

[maggiems]

Hi , I am a mum to twin boys aged 5. They are in their second year at school and I have just had my parent teacher interview after which I am in a bit of a state.. Last years teacher expressed concern about DT2?s concentration span, saying that he needed a lot of encouragement and standing over to complete tasks. The boys are the youngest in the class and if they had been born a month later when due would not have started school until this year. The concerns have obviously remained and this year?s teacher has also said the same thing. She says that he doesn?t process the oral instructions that she gives him and if she gives him a task in a group and she disappears he doesn?t complete it. She has given us an IEP where one of his goals is to carry out one verbal instruction and to repeat it back to her. He has been able to carry out 3 part (never tried more than this) instructions at home for what seems like years but it seems in the noisy distractible class setting he doesn?t comply. This morning when I was telling him to do something and I knew he was slightly distracted at the time I asked him to repeat it back to me and he did. She says his speech is fine and he has a fantastic vocabulary but says he would benefit from some speech therapy to help him process better. I contacted my doctor to get a referral but the doctor didn?t really understand how speech therapy would help if it was an attention problem and if he could speak ok. He indicated that when processing problems are present, appropriate expressive speech would also normally be impacted. He is sending the health visitor out to see him in a couple of weeks just to check to see if she thinks his speech is ok and then he is happy to refer him if not. . My health visitor has always been great and that sounds like a sensible idea to me. He had a recent hearing test at achool and it was fine. I don?t have any concerns about his hearing
The teacher also said that she wants to put him on a waiting list to be seen by the educational psychologist as, if the situation doesn?t improve by the time he gets to the top of the waiting list he may need extra help. When I asked about the process if he did have to be seen she said well maybe the ed psyc would say he was within the normal range and was ok and she then mentioned a statement which I was astounded at. She said a child would have to be 2 years behind to get a statement and she didn?t think DT2 was in this category. I was so thrown by the fact that she said ?she didn?t think he was ? that I couldn?t speak.
DT2 can read ok. He scored 70% in some test that they did where they had to read a book that they hadn?t seen before (DT1 scored 80% but hes always ahead anyway). She told me there were children scoring less than 50% . He can count, do adding and taking away. OK you have to stand over him a bit but he is able to do it very well on a practical level. He can spell some words, He can write (not long sentences but improving all the time) .he can sound words out . He is sociable and very communicative . He is very close to his twin and feels a little lost when he is not there but he has some friends also. He is a very happy inquisitive little boy who is very interested in the world around him . He is well able to concentrate on things like Lego at home and I assume school, its just the rest of it. I suppose I do quite a bit of work with him at home and I think a lot of what he has learnt has been at home but I work pretty much full time so I am not spending that long each day I cant believe she said what she did about the 2 years thing. I think he may be behind a bit in terms of his concentration span but to contemplate thinking he was like a 3 year old was a bit baffling. She also mentioned that his gross motor movements needed a bit more control but I am not too concerned about that. He can run, hop, bounce, throw and catch a ball. He moves quite spontaneously but he doesn?t really bump into things. His fine motor skills are fine, he can write, use scissors well etc . He has definitely improved since the end of last year in terms of his concentration at home so I am hoping it will sort itself. He is also telling me more things that the teacher has said. For example the other day when I was telling him the homework he had to do , I said ? You have to draw a picture of something in your book and copy a sentence in.? he said No Mummy , the teacher said a picture OR a sentence and he was right. I had read it wrong

Just interested to know if anyone else been in the same position or if anyone thinks speech therapy would help this problem

Thanks for reading if you got this far

I am concerned that your experiences with your son are so different to his teachers. But as you said there is a big difference between a classroom full of children and 1-1 attention from a parent at home.

I would ask the teacher if she can prepare a written statement of her observations for you to show you GP and HV - perhaps do this through a letter to the Headteacher asking for them to arrange it and giving your reasons why.

There are only 5 school's in the country which openly idenitfy and encourage gifted children, however all are supposed to identify and work with those who are less inclined to do well - not that that is the case. Ask the Headteacher what the school can do to assist your son, aside from seeing a psychologist, as that will not help his performance until a diagnosis has been made.

You have'nt mentioned it but I would be interested to know what the student/teach ratio is and whether your son's teacher is just under pressure. Also why, if she is this concerned has she waited for an annual parent evening event, when for something which she obviously feels is a problem she should have contacted you before.

Thanks for your reply and suggestion. There are 20 children in the class so the ratio is not bad. I am not surprised by the fact that he doesnt always comply when asked to do things but I was surprised by the things she mentioned. Some of them were academic things and as i said i can imagine him needing a bit of proding to do some of it. However she mentioned things like "Put your homework book in the box" and "get your lunchbox" almost as if he didnt understand these things when obviously he does as he puts his homework book in the box each morning when I tell him to. I think he just doesnt listen when the teacher is calling things out to a number of children . I was also surprised that she thougt it bad enough to refer him to the child phycologist although she did say he may have matured by then and wouldnt need anything. I have just done some homework where I asked him to do a colouring maths type thing and then read and copy a sentence all of which he did without having to be reminded to do the second part, with a bit of chatting here and there. However no distractions here at the moment.

Be careful of the teacher wanting him to have some sort of disorder just because he behaves a bit differently and has a slight concentration problem, the head at my ds's school thought he had 'deep rooted problems' today i saw the ed psch and he thinks my ds has trouble concentrating and carrying out tasks when he is asked but that it can be overcome and is not a 'disorder in itself, more just the way my ds is . and that ym son has a few difficulties, but listend to me and understood why i thought he was having these problems (lots or reasons at moment)If it does not ring true with you trust your instinct. If his speech is fine does not need speech therapy.

responding to you 3.10 post my son has the same issues with not doing as asked and waiting to be told more than once before he asks, the ed psch thinks is because he does not pay attention enough and also after my input it might be that I do so much for him at home(I know its wrong and trying to change) that he is waiting for somone else to do things for him or is not usied to takng responsibility for things.

before he acts I meant

Thanks Jenny.His twin is more mature and quicker to do things and I think DT2 sort of follows his lead and relies on him doing things for him. my gut feeling about him is something like what your ed psyc thinks, ie he doesnt pay enough attention and thats who is he. I did a search on your name top see how old your DS1 and saw that he is having problems in his new school. I hope they get sorted. I think this is the second time you have seen a ed psch, is that right?

yes the first time was in march and he had a glowing report and is 2 years ahead in verbal comprehension at normal age for reading and average for maths, had problems last year inOctober05 as he was a bit deaf and we had not realised, he had the grommets operation this year in march and immediately improved, hence the glowing psych ed report and when he started new school this august everyting went to pot and the new head wanted a second opinion from the ed psych I saw today but , he agreed with old report and said the change of schools has caused this as I feel is the case, but he does not concentrate and focus enough and needs to be told over and over what is happening and what to do next. He is 7. I though he had a problem with his hands and thats all i told the new school but at the new school that is not even an issue they say his writing is fine, must have improved.I told the head he is fine at home but she had him down for all sorts. also as he was agressive with the kids , never was at old school again that has an explanation , he has been bullied mercilessly in new street all summer so that by september I stopped him going out ,so when school came he expected the worst and it was a defense mechanism and some of these same kids are at the school. The Ed psych listened to me, unlike the head teacher. If I thought he needed intervention i would ask. I am glad you understand what I mean, sorry about the long post lol

I am going to try and help him to be more independant and stop waiting on him hand and foot i think i baby him too much but that way i was erm smother...I mean mothered lol. So i think I have a part to play in it too. am in a quandry at the moment as I was going to pull him out of school and home educate once i had got consent, but talking to the ed psych todayit seemd not as bad, and that maybe it would not be the best thing. We will be rehoused agin in the next 6 months so am worried aobut yet more change . He just has not coped well with the move basically

I am going to try and help him to be more independant and stop waiting on him hand and foot i think i baby him too much but that way i was erm smother...I mean mothered lol. So i think I have a part to play in it too. am in a quandry at the moment as I was going to pull him out of school and home educate once i had got consent, but talking to the ed psych todayit seemd not as bad, and that maybe it would not be the best thing. We will be rehoused agin in the next 6 months so am worried aobut yet more change . He just has not coped well with the move basically

sorry clicked twice by mistake

Hi cat64 - thanks for your post and your suggestions. i think after halloween I will do something more like you and others have suggested. I recall raising the issue of receptive versus expressive speech last year with a SALT that I am in contact with from time to time and she said that although expressive speech can be ahead of receptive speech its usually down to listening and attention difficulties unless a child has something like aspergers but perhaps this is not the case. Can i ask if you have seen many children where processing was an issue and if Speech therapy helped. I think . I think he processes ok. I suppose the fact that he can follow instructions at home in a quiet environment suggests that its an attention issue rather than a processing one.

Cat 64 interesting post

My ds had similar issues at that age about doing what he was asked (plus terrible tantrums), and the school was very quick to suggest that he was autistic, which I found somewhat irritating. However if they are only raising it at a routine meeting I can't believe that it is very serious - maybe they were juist wanting to make sure you knew all the possibilities? Usually getting referred to an education pyschologist comes after other things are ruled out (my ds was sent to the paediatrician, OT and physio) so that seems surprisng, but it may be because of the long wait (not surprising if referrals are happening so easily!) My ds at 7 has now finally been diagnosed with dyslexia (I had him assessed privately), and part of that is about processing problems, but I see your ds is fine for writing. It may just be that the teacher finds it hard not to compare him with your other son - are they in the same class?

Even though he's passed a hearing test, unless they have done a tympanogram, you can't rule out some degree of glue ear. I've got a friend whose DS (5) has just been diagnosed with glue ear - he has passed all hearing tests, including hearing tests at the audiology clinic, but when they do a tympanogram of his ears the line is flat. It was the teacher who flagged it up as he finds it difficult to hear and concentrate in group work, though is fine one to one.

I don't know about the pitch. My friend's boy doesn't seem to show many of the signs of glue ear - he speaks well and clearly (though a bit loudly sometimes), he's confident and happy, reading and writing well etc. But apparently he 'gets lost' in group work at school and sometimes, when it's very noisy, he covers his ears as if he can't 'filter' the noise properly.

Thanks everyone. Nooka they are in the same class but i am going to separate them next year for both their sakes. Singersgirl thats very interesting. Funnily enough DT1 failed his hearing test in school last year and had to have a test at the audiology clinic last week. i think he had what you described, ie a graph appeared when the audiologist stuck something in his ear. The graph relating to the right ear was flatter indicating a very mild hearing loss. No action to be taken he is just being monitored in case it gets worse. It doesnt seem to have any impact on his ability in class but I had noticed him not hearing quite as well as normal when he had a cold just directly before the school visit. Howeever I had DT2 with me at the clinic and was tempted to ask if she could stick the thing in his ear as well just in case but I felt it would be inappropriate. If the parent teachers meeting had happened before then I would have. I think I will arrange for a check now although I had to wait for a good few months for DT1. DT2 has always seemed to have good hearing, ie hears very low sounds but i was also wondering about different pitches

Posts crossed Singersgirl. thats also interesting. DT2 talks quite loudly and also covers his ears sometimes if he hears something loud, not so much now though. Did your friends boy have a severe case of glue ear and has there been any improvement or is it too soon to tell?

Maggiems, they've only just diagnosed it. He's been tested 3 times in the last year since starting Reception (he's also in Y1 now), and each time he passes the hearing test bit, and presses all the right buttons, but the tympanogram is flat, showing fluid in the eardrum. They've kept retesting to see if it clears, but it hasn't.

Apparently, they want to test again in 6 months and they may then consider grommets. My friend's got a leaflet with some tips for helping the child - the only one I remember was to try to avoid speaking in rooms with hard floors!!!

She told me it is more common in boys than girls, particularly boys with narrow faces, and that it usually resolves itself by 8.