Year 2 struggling writers with...dyslexic traits, poor memory and speech and lang difficulties

[CuriousTeacher]

Hi. I'm posting here ( reporting actually as I didn't choose correct forum) as there is more traffic than on TES, I think, and I also know there are some every experiences specialist teachers on MN:)

I am teaching in mainstream in a learning support role. Three of my year 2s are making slow progress with writing ( there is a chance they might be level 2c by the end of the year).

I'm fairly new to my role and would like some advice.

I teach phonics in a cumulative and structured way and do lots of work on phonological awareness and high frequency words. Reading progress has been really good and spelling has vastly improved. Most words are now phonetically plausible and many hf spelled correctly if doing simple word level or sentence level tasks. At least, I am seeing great progress in the context of my small group sessions.

My million dollar question is about how to have more of an impact on writing skills that they can transfer to the classroom and actually be seen in their independent writing. As soon as they have to write anything more independently, they seem to lose the thread and forget what they intended to write. Or the writing doesn't make sense. Or it's gone off at an irrelevant tangent. They cannot yet multitask to the extent they need to, to be proficient writers. And they currently lack some of the thinking skills too, tbh.

My gut feeling is that in schools, children like this are being asked to run before they can walk.

Do you think that I should be doing any creative writing/ writing composition with children like these in an intervention group? Or should I be taking the creative element out at this stage and just focus on the basics? ( and keep any composition really simple eg caption writing).

Btw, I am using some some programmes for spelling and phonics, but feel less clear about how best to support writing skills at this stage (at the 'text level' iykwim).

'Reposting' not reporting.

Not a teacher, but can't you do both? Not at the same time though. I know some children at my school use a programme (clicker?) to take away the 'spelling' part of creative writing so they can concentrate on the creative part.

This link might be of some interest, though obviously you would have to adapt the ideas to suit your children's level of work: www.learningspy.co.uk/featured/new-twist-slow-writing/

I think I'd be tempted to focus on using the phonics in writing but in quite a structured way. Almost taking them right back to what they should have had in reception. So, if you don't already then sentence dictation, and/or getting them to read a sentence that's within their phonic knowledge, hold it in their heads and then write it. You might have to start with short sentences or just saying part of a sentence. Always get them into the habit of reading back and checking for spelling and punctuation once they have written it.

Then I think it's a case of reteaching the writing process, in a guided way. Starting with think it, say it, write it, check it for sentences, then build it up. They will probably need a lot of talking before they write, rather than just being given a writing task.

How much time do you have with them? Is in daily sessions outside the classroom or are you supporting them in a literacy lesson?

Hi bilberry, I do use clicker with some students as I'm trying to give them experience with software they can use for writing in the classroom when doing topic work etc. however, I'm really interested in how I can help develop their actual writing skills at an appropRiate level.

Kestrel, I was genuinely very interested in your link. I think that that approach would need more higher order thinking skills than these students have at the moment. Wish I was still class teaching to try out that approach!

Rafael, I think you may be right about teaching in a more structured way.

Thanks all...any others comments?

From a parents' point of view, I think dyslexia is better spotted earlier. Can the parents get them assessed, or the school do this too. I wish someone had talked about my ds's issues in a practical way eg. advice to get an assessment. He certainly has working memory problems and now he's in Y4 we are just going down this path. He's actually really clever but struggles so much with composition and grammar. He just got 3C which he's very excited about!

Again this is just a parent's point of view, but please don't take out the creative writing element. My son's dyslexic and a lot of the traits you describe fit. He's articulate and imaginative but could never get it down on paper. So he never got his work on the wall and would write the minimum as a) it took him an age and b) nobody could read it and c) he couldn't spell. We got a fantastic teacher in yr3 who gave him a dictaphone when they were doing creative writing, so he'd go to a quiet place and dictate his story. She taught him basic mind maps so he had a vague plan in front of him, then bless her she typed it up quite a few times and gave him oodles of praise and yes finally his work went on the wall. It made such a difference as he stopped saying he couldn't write and started realising he could. And of course confidence brings confidence, so he started writing much more independently too.

Thanks merry and smee. To clarify, there is no plan to cut out the creative element from the curriculum, I'm just thinking about what to focus on during the intervention sessions alone. One thing I'm trying to decide as an interventions teacher is whether I need to teach those skills (such as mind mapping or using clicker) to my year 2s or focus on the basics writing skills themselves.

That's good to hear Curious. I think what I was trying to say (badly!) is that with my son he did obviously need the intervention/ basics, but actually what made him fly was gaining confidence and self belief. He was getting into a rut and not progressing because he'd thought he was useless at writing/ so therefore he didn't want to/ couldn't write. I think it's a vicious circle for lots of kids. With him, once he got the self belief back in place, the basics started coming far more easily. I suppose lots depends on the individual child though.

Do you have the time to do both? If you have them every day, could you perhaps do Mon-Weds focus on phonics, with practice of writing at word/sentence level. Then Thurs/Fri have a focus on applying that knowledge to their writing.

How would the kids cope with class work if they had the support of IT/Clicker? Could their CT do he creative writing bit with this support then you focus on the writing basics?

Confidence is a massive, massive, massive one. This just comes from lots of praise and doing the more fun things, engaging them to write so they want to.

In terms of my ds1, his year 3 teacher came down like a ton of bricks on his full stops. He cracked it....for about 2 terms and now is back again so it can be a bit of a waste of time, I feel. He spent most of Y3 very anxious and unhappy. (Not just because of full stops, but that whole attitude towards him of 'problem solving' and frustration when he got it wrong). It will come, and obviously needs some work, but confidence helps that massively. This year's teacher has focussed more on praise for his IDEAS, and somehow his joined up writing has also really taken off (which is quite miraculous as by the end of Y3, he was still not joining up and was forming around 50% of letters incorrectly as he has poor motor skills). I was really despairing of his writing as it was very laboured and hard to read, but it seems like joining up later on (he only really started full words in Y4) has really worked for him.

This Mind Map thing sounds awesome. I'm going to ask him if he's done that.

I don't think it's all that helpful for other thing to be assessed in the classroom using writing for these children. So things like mind mapping, recording, scribing are a brilliant way for them to get their ideas across and show what they can do.

But I think intervention is different though. If these were younger children at a similar stage we'd be gradually introducing independent writing to them and not expecting too much in terms of the amount of writing. There would also be a lot of talking and oral rehearsing before they started writing. That's possibly missing from a year 2 classroom because expectations are higher. And it might be that these children need that gap filling because it went over their heads the first time.

Just asked ds1 what a mind map is and he doesn't know. Can someone do me a link as I know if I google it I'll get loads of things coming up,

www.tonybuzan.com/about/mind-mapping/

I would have thought Talk4Writing/story maps more useful tools

Thanks mrz. Hmmm...need to look more into the mind map, but not sure I get it. He has tons of ideas. They need to be structured. Not sure how the mind map creates structure - maybe I need to start another thread!

Writing Real Pack.pdf try the writing skeletons think it's page 6

www.talk4writing.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Writing-toolkits.pdf

You sound like a fabulous and astute Learning Supoort Assistant. I feel that a programme such as Alpha to Omega could well be carried out - ideally one to one, but possibly in a small group of children (with similar abilities in the areas of spelling and working memory) with an emphasis on punctuation as well as spelling. As the programme progresses and the words dictated become longer/ more than one syllable, there is ample opportunity to explore the skill of segmenting (breaking the word down into its sounds / phonemes in order to spell them).

This is an old fashioned/ long-standing programme. However, it IS good. Alpha to Omega is a cumulative programme that works on improving the pupils' synthesis and automaticity in writing with correct spelling and punctuation. This programme is also helpful in giving children opportunity to strategise when remembering the full sentence that they're to write (working memory) in the midst of spelling, punctuating, handwriting legibly, etc.
The sentences offered vary in length to place greater demand on working memory for those who are ready for it/ in need of a challenge. I'd also recommend explicitly teaching them to use good writing strategies that many children develop intuitively (e.g. whispering the complete sentence that they'd like to write in advance of committing it to paper, etc.).

Curious Teacher you don't say what aspects of writing are preventing them from progressing. My suggestion would be to start by asking them to produce a piece of independent writing and use this to establish where there are gaps as this will give you a base to plan for them.

thanks all for your useful recommendations, i will certainly follow up those links with interest.

i think that the main difficulties are:
-memory difficulties when rehearsing/ recording a sentence
-immature speech and language and grammatical weaknesses which is then reflected in written content
-phonic knowledge is not at a sufficiently automatic level so they have too much to hold in their heads whilst trying to compose as well!

i think my main issue is that as an interventions teacher i feel that i am expected to work on guided writing with groups, with an element of creative writing (which is why we feel we are trying to run before we can walk).

Alpha to Omega will help with first and last of the difficulties you've just bullet pointed. Sound Linkage will help with phonological aspects usually associated with reading but essential to spelling (segmenting) - your second bullet point.

I suggest you speak to the teacher and head of year as you've hit upon exactly what the children need. They will hopefully set up a separate time for you to put these intervention programmes into place outside of those dedicated to guided writing that need to be fulfilled as part of the curriculum - despite the obvious difficulties in doing so. During your guided writing lessons, you might like to develop oral stories and record the children's voices in order to replay as part of an 'almost dictation' exercise.

I would suggest looking at Pie Corbett sentence games www.hildenborough.kent.sch.uk/pie-corbett-writing-ideas.pdf www.hope.ac.uk/media/liverpoolhope/contentassets/documents/education/media,21009,en.pdf

and Five sentence stories www.teachprimary.com/learning_resources/view/the-five-sentence-story

do you use dictation in your sessions? You provide the sentence (so they don't have to think about it) they count the number of words and write the sentence ... start with short sentences and gradually increase the number of words they have to recall and write.

Talk 4Writing would probably be a useful tool.