prep school have withdrawn my son's place in year 2

[rosaura]

i am in complete schock. we have been invited to move our son's from his prep school because he does not reach their academic standards!!! i have been in shock for 2 days... my son is only 6 and in year 2. they sad that they do not have the staff to support him next year to reach the standards set by the school. has anybody got any suggestions or similar experiences you can share? how can a school reject a child at 6?

[LadySybilLikesSloeGin]

MrsCampbell has a point there, it certainly seems fishy

Ds's prep was bought out and the new (catholic) head had certain families that he didn't want in the school, us included. He was very indiscrete, and told me that another family had to leave as they couldn't afford the fees I was told to move ds to a boarding school as a boarder which had a 'strong male housemaster' because I was a single mother and he needed discipline (ds is dyspraxic and has a social skills delay, so his problems had nothing to do with his behaviour). He even recommended one several times, but when I tried to move him to a different boarding school as a day pupil the headmaster blocked it by giving the school a poor reference and we were not offered a place. Another family were forced to leave too. They were told there was no space for their child in the September (there was), 2 weeks earlier the child's mum had asked the head not to teach her child about heaven as this wasn't their faith. Sad thing was, the child's father was dying of cancer, so you'd think this would be the time to respect a parent's wishes. He welcomed catholic families with 2 parents with open arms, and the only other child of a LP ended up going to a boarding school the following year, a boarding school that turned out to belong to the head's mate... the one he'd told me to move ds to.

I did remove ds and the school didn't ask for a reference. Some schools are quite nasty about how they do things, not all of them are like this though. Ds is at a wonderful school now, they were the ones that picked up his dyspraxia. I'm sure you'll find one that's right for him . Let me know if you're in the East Midlands and I'll give you some names

[rosaura]

Charlesryder I speak regularly to ds about school and giving his best and he does listen but school tells me that he has good days and far too many bad days in between. He has not been seen by a specialist for ADD or ADHD but I have questioned the ed psych about it and in her opinion ds follows all instruction and routine around the school and she has escluded that too. Mrscampbell i wonder if you are right and there is more going on inside the school than I am aware about... This would explain the hot and cold air blowing...mind you there is a new director of studies who clearly dislikes us and we reciprocate and I have wondered if she is the next headmistress to come... I'll be counting myself lucky to be out of there then!!!

[rosaura]

Thanks ladysybil I'm in outer London/ surrey. Xx

[ChocolateWombat]

I think it is common for independent schools to 'weed out' at the end of each phase, if they have high academic standards. It is unpleasant, but I think that as long as the possibility is made clear on joining the school and advance warning is given, rather than just a shock booting out, then this is the price people have to pay for highly selective education.

My DC go to a Prep which makes clear that moving from the pre-prep to Prep at 7, and to the Senior School at 11 is usual but not guaranteed. At the end of Yr 1 and Yrs 3 and 4 parents are told if their children are 'on track' for the next stage. If they are not on track, the idea is that parents start considering elsewhere for the next phase .....they have a year for those in Year 1 and up to 3 years to consider alternatives if in Year 3. The idea is that no one is suddenly told with less than 18 months to go, that their future in the school is uncertain. There is time to consider alternatives. Of course, no one likes being in this position and usually it is only about 5 per year if that, that are. For those not getting into the senior school, they are warned at the end of Year 3, told more clearly in Year 4 (if there hasn't been improvement) and by the end of Year 5 will be getting a very clear message. Those who are not guaranteed automatic entry to the senior school can still sit the entrance exam with those from outside, but as far as I know, only 1 or 2 ever have and neither got in.

It is unpleasant. However, schools which get the very top results, which is what parents want from those schools, can only achieve them with top kids. If they allowed a broader range of children in, results would be lower......and many schools do just that, which is fine. Parents sending their children to very academic schools need to ensure they know the school policy and are prepared for the possibility of having to look elsewhere.....I think some parents simply refuse to hear the message which is or should be given from the outset.....and then they are cross.

The senior school of the Prep that my DC are at also has requirements for continuing to the 6th Form - I think this is pretty common. Most years 1 or 2 seem to not meet the grade. The requirements have been laid out clearly from the beginning and information is given to anyone t risk of not getting the grades at least 2 years in advance......but still parents seem shocked and outraged. I can see that if you have paid £X for many years, it feels awful, but if the information has been given clearly and in good time, I think schools can do this. In our school I know it is done gently and not lightly. Still awful to be on the receiving end though.

[LadySybilLikesSloeGin]

Not every school is like that, Chocolate. The one ds was 'kindly' booted out of was due to a change in headteacher who decided that we were not good enough to be at the school. Ds is academically very, very bright so there was nothing wrong there. If I'd have thought that there was a possibility of being told with a terms notice that I needed to find a new school for him I wouldn't have sent him there. No parent wants to move their child from school to school, it's unfair on the child.

[poppy70]

I know many very good state primaries in Oxford who talk to parents about the 'children being better off elsewhere.' Solely because they don't make the grade academically. That is very different from a conversation about an SEN child who for staffing, resources reasons a school cannot cope with. I think it is brave in such a case for the school to say we are doing our best but this may not be the best environment for them.

[Killasandra]

Poppy it's not brave at all. Exactly the opposite. It is a very lazy and incompetent excuse.

Unless they have got said child a place at a special school all they are doing is getting rid of the child. Who will go to another school which gets exactly the same money as the one they were kicked out of.

Unless the problem is something like the child needs a wheelchair or disabled toilets and this old Victorian school doesn't have them but the new one up the road does.

If the child is having learning difficulties or concentration problems or behavioural problems, whether or not they have a diagnosis of ADHD, ASD etc - or nothing. It is almost never acceptable for a mainstream school to ask a child to move to another mainstream school.

Only exceptions I can think of is when the class contains children who need to be separated and the school can't do that because there is only one Y3 class or something like that.

But the school in that case would not be saying that school X is better for your DC.

[Sunflower123456]

When a school accepts children, it should not expel them in short notice if the they can't fully perform or confirm. The school should work out a program to help each child individually. I can understand this may be difficult for state schools as there's a funding shortage, but it cannot be the case for private schools unless they are lazy, greedy, or both.

If a school would only retain outstanding children, to achieve outstanding results, and can't or won't get above average children to achieve outstanding results, then it's no more than an average school and that's what most private schools are. Sadly it's impossible to tell if a school is bad or both beforehand.

[Isithappening]

Private schools often have funding shortages too, hence why so many close at short notice or merge with other private schools. They may charge more in fees than the state schools get in funding per pupil. It they also have higher overheads due to smaller classes, more facilities etc.
A private school might only want children which can reach their expected level of academic standard and can behave in a manner which doesn't impact on the other children in the class. The reasons for this are that private schools need to keep funds coming in so that the school remains financially viable. If the results take a nosedive or parents remove children due to one disruptive child then the schools finances take a huge hit which the school might not be able to absorb. The easier option is to ask children to leave if they are having a negative effect on results or are behaving in a manner which is causing others to consider withdrawing their children.
Private schools and state schools are not the same and parents know this when they'd sign their children up to attend a private school. There are few rules around exclusions or asking children to leave in the private sector.
Obviously, children who are disruptive in the state sector are often forced to leave, via expulsion, or are moved medium term to pupil referral units or schools for children with emotional and behavioural difficulties (primary as well as secondary aged children).

[poppy70]

Apologises I meant a school saying it in reference to a severely SEN child who needs permanent 1 - 1 and the mainstream school does not have an inclusion unit or the resources to provide this. In which case they would be going to a special school or a mainstream school with inclusion provisions. I do not think people fully understand the lack of money in many schools now. There just is not the funding any more to get an in need child 1 to 1 unless the DAFF is altered early and the school has already spent something like 6 thousand - double the provision for the child first.

[QuiteQuietly]

When we moved area we looked around a few schools. The head at one v popular state primary was (shockingly) very up front about the school possibly not being right for us and said they were "not set up for SEN" and that their Senco's primary role was to help children find other school places. We chose a different primary and since being there nearly 2 years there are 3 children I know of who have arrived from the other school who happen to be struggling with something academic. They are not disruptive, merely dragging the average down.

[poppy70]

Thise children don't sound SEN just bow average. There is not any reason for a mainstream school not to br able to deal with anyone left of average - in any way. Some schools are not equiped to give the best life choice for a severely SEN child though.

[Opopanax]

The school I sent my daughter to does have an inclusion unit, though this is reserved for children with really severe problems, mainly around social and communication issues. It also has a much higher percentage of children with some form of SEN in its mainstream classes than any of the other surrounding primaries (think twice as many most years). This is because it is doing its actual job as a community primary school and actually trying to educate all children rather than palm the difficult ones off on other schools. I have personal knowledge of one other local school (apart from the one I and Michaelahpurple mentioned above) trying to get rid of children who they don't feel fit their demographic. I suspect there are plenty more who do it.

BTW, I would not have sent my child to the one I first mentioned unless absolutely forced to. It was like a sort of child factory. DD is doing brilliantly at her v academically underwhelming but kind and inclusive school, and hopefully she is developing some compassion and realising how lucky she is, too. I do not like the idea of children seeing their less able or less well-behaved peers being edged out and thinking that this is an OK way to behave.

[Sunflower123456]

Is there any way of knowing if a private school is struggling financially? Parents should know beforehand these schools are high risk.

[LadySybilLikesSloeGin]

There's ways to see their accounts if they are a charity. Usually there's warning signs, staff not being replaced or replaced with NQT's (they are cheaper), building not being maintained, land being sold off. You may be able to see them on the company's house web site.

They don't tell parents. The last thing a struggling school wants is a mass exodus and if they want to sell it as a going concern they need to fill it.

[Sunflower123456]

We naively selected our daughters private school base on their exam results, web site, brochures and a short tour on their open day. It turned out to be a complete nightmare after we sent her there. I don't think the school was struggling financially, as it's part of the GDST group, but the HT was a real bxxxx. Hence I sympathise with anyone having or had problem with private schools.

[LadySybilLikesSloeGin]

Ah, the sales package Yup, I fell for the talk too. Brochure with happy smiley children, great exam results, home cooked food with 2 options for the fussy eater, swimming, tennis court, trips. I took ds to look around and it was lovely. It was owned by the head, no one expected her to sell it! It all went downhill rapidly. I'd end up taking food in for ds as they removed the option and all they were serving was salad, meaning he would go hungry as he didn't like veg. There isn't many private schools in this city though so they are still up and running. The web site is still full of happy smiley children and goes on about how inclusive they are to children with mild SN (including dyspraxia!) We were bullied out of there, we really were

[Sunflower123456]

We were bullied out too. The HT told us (and wrote) that our daughter cannot attend their school, unless she eats their school lunches, even when we gave her a long letter from our GP recommending home pack lunches as she has allergies. Her attitude was take it or leave it.

[LadySybilLikesSloeGin]

that's disgraceful! I hope your daughter is at a better school now. It's a shame there's no way to complain. Ofsted are not always interested so there's no were to go.

[Sunflower123456]

Our daughter is a lot better and happier now, thanks. We followed their complaints procedure, but GDST refused to hold a panel hearing to protect their school and HT. We forwarded our complaint to DoE which in turn instructed the ISI to check the schools complaints procedure. However, neither of these organisation would get involved with individual cases, so in effect private schools can get away with almost anything.

[LadySybilLikesSloeGin]

Afraid so. It's great that she's happy and being well cared for, it must be a weight off your shoulders

[LadySybilLikesSloeGin]

Oops, the last one should have been

[Toastandsympathy]

Very sorry to hear this OP. I just wonder how these schools comply with the disability discrimination act? Isn't there a need to make reasonable adjustments. Fundamentally, there is a moral issue here as well if all they are interested in is exam results rather than the education of a child as a whole?

[HiccupsMother]

OP I wondered how you had got on - have you found a place?

[rosaura]

Thank you hiccups for checking out on me. I haven't found a school yet I'm still visiting however ds current school seem to be changing their mind!!!!! Apparently he is improving... And they are now almost discouraging me to move!! I mentioned a couple of school to them and their comments were ' not the right school for ds' ' don't Rush if you don't find the right fit ds can stay here' so in a way reinforces my idea that their decision was not solely based on ds performance but all this is very unsettling and confusing.... I have another meeting soon with the teacher so let's see what the outcome will be....