Choosing prep school

[t4sh4]

Hello everybody. I am relatively new to Mumsnet so please excuse any lapses in etiquette. I have two daughters, the elder of whom turned 3 in December. We have just been to visit Merton Court Prep School in Sidcup and was mostly happy with it. She has been offered a place to start in the summer term. However, now we are getting cold feet and are going to be going to visit Benedict House and West Lodge. Going by ISI reports West Lodge appears to be the superior school compared to Merton Court. I haven't been able to track down any reports for Benedict House however. What am I missing? Do any mums have kids in any of these schools? Any advice would be very gladly received. Thank you for your time. Hope you all had a lovely Valentine's day. x

I don't know the schools you mentioned, but wanted to say that in addition to the ISI reports, (as well as a number of other factors - like your impression of the school and its Head, facilities and location) - I'd also check out leavers destinations.

I, personally, get uneasy if the school is vague about where their kids go. Some, give exact numbers and historical performance. Others, just list the schools w/o telling you how many when where.

Finally, looks like your offer is for the nursery. Most other preps would start at Reception. So, if you can't make up your mind, nothing stops you from joining the nursery, and moving to another place for Reception if you don't like it.

Good luck!

Benedict House school (in Sidcup) has a very basic website. (Is this the school you mean?) If it was me I would wonder why it is so useless. They were inspected by Ofsted in 2007 but nothing since it appears. No leaver destinations so you don't know if they are successful or not! I would want way more info than this when choosing a school. Also top prep schools get students into public schools and go through to age 13. If they do not do this, they are not a top prep school and have local aspirations only. Nothing especially wrong with that, but clearly have no-one going to Harrow or Eton.

Thanks for your reply MMmomKK. I am quite keen on West Lodge based on the ISI report. I will be going to view it early next month. However, they only have spaces next year - when DD1 will be starting reception. Do you think it's worth me putting her down for EYFS with another prep school while she waits for her place at West Lodge or will she be sufficiently prepared for reception at her usual day nursery. I realise I am asking you to really speculate here because you don't know the quality of her nursery.. But I am really at sea and would appreciate any input. Thanks so much x

Thanks MillyMollyMama. The 3 prep schools in my area all only go up to age 11. You are quite right, all their leavers destinations are the local grammar schools, some of which are super selective like St. Olaves. Benedict Houses' website is actually the nicest of the 3 I am considering. It is by far the most expensive as well. I am wondering why this is the case because it doesn't have the best facilities (that would be Merton Court) or the best academic success (which is West Lodge)...

I think Benedict House website tells you very little - no destinations, no fees! How much more expensive? I note the owner also has two little private schools in Bucks which are no great shakes. (I know them). Merton House had a very good destination list. Clearly an 11 plus factory, as is West Lodge.

Be very wary of Isis reports. They are not very rigorous and I have seen some works of pure fiction! Go with where you feel the atmosphere suits you and your DC best. What do the classrooms look like? What sports teams do they run? What drama and music is available? Are there lots of after school clubs? What is the teaching like? Does the school inspire children? Does the Head make you welcome? Are there displays of children's work everywhere including art work? Do pupils show you round? Are there extra curricular trips? How many pupils are in each school? Are they financially sound?

At this age, any decent pre school setting will do the job, but do you want another change in a year's time? What do you think is not so good about Merton Court?

If I am honest, I quite liked Merton Court till I came across the ISI reports for both Merton and West Lodge. What got the alarm bells ringing a bit was that I could find absolutely no reviews for MC online except for the odd comment on forums such as this one. Benedict House on the other hand has much support on the Mumsnet threads I could find reviewing it. But no reports except for the Ofsted one from 2007.

MC is rated 'good' in all categories of the ISI report whereas WL is rated 'excellent' across the board. According to the reports MC is OK for kids who are middle of the road but falls short both in extending gifted pupils and supporting ones with SEND. DD2 is very premature and though she is only 1, I sometimes worry if she will have learning difficulties at school which is why I have been looking at the SEND side of things with interest.

I don't really want to keep changing things around for her... Ideally they would stay at the same primary till it's time to move up.

Not all premature babies have learning difficulties so don't necessarily expect this. I would base your choice on the needs of DD1 at the moment if you are unsure what you might want for DD2. If their needs turn out to be different, then so be it.

I agree with you that West Lodge looks better from the ISI Report. In fact, there are issues with Merton Court that would probably be Inadequate if it was an Ofsted Inspection of a state school. No performance management of the Head and no effective governance. I would say safeguarding procedures only just scraped a "satisfactory" too!!! This school seems like the personal fiefdom of the owner and it just would not suit me! West Lodge is far better run and has a very short list of improvements which I think you can be confident they can achieve. With the ownership oddities of Merton Court and the lack of effective management, I think they will have problems in doing what the report says they must. I agree that it is most odd there is no recent report for Benedict House and finding out information about them seems problematic. I would suspect they are not taking many grammar school bound children. If they did, they would be telling prospective parents about it on their web site. For me, it would be West Lodge.

I never looked up sites like MN or anything else when I chose a school. I tended to know what I was looking for but not everyone else is like me. Some people look for the social life with other Mums. My DD attended the Early Years dept of the sister school to Benedict House, but as the quality of teaching above EFYS was pretty average, we left and moved to a decent prep school that did trips abroad, languages, sports teams, drama, music, choirs, huge array of after school activities and had decent teaching with plenty of children in the school. Many prep schools do have the full EY setting but children can get claustrophobic in a small school when they are there for many years. Let us know what you think of the other schools.

It's an interesting point you raise about the size of the school MillyMollyMama. WL has only 160 students while MC has closer to 330. I was really thinking of the smaller size as an advantage because I thought DDs would be well known and I find children thrive when they feel recognised. The claustrophobic aspect of it had escaped me...

We have been offered a place at MC - starting in the summer term. I am due to go and visit WL and BH in the first week of March. MC are waiting for us to complete the acceptance form but once I do that, I will owe them a term's notice if we want to move. The headteacher at MC said all the right things but I really felt like we were being given a sales pitch and he was saying what he thought we wanted to hear.

Benedict House is confounding me because I know some very discerning mums who are sending their kids there although the fees are almost triple that of WL.

DD2 was extremely prem at just 26 weeks which is why I worry about her. Research seems to show that some preemies can struggle in academics but I guess it is simply too early to tell. DD1 is very bright ( I bet all parents think that of their LOs) and we would really like to give her the benefit of a good start.

Thank you so much for all your help. You have clearly spent a fair bit of time researching the schools and your feedback will definitely be influencing my final decision.

Agree with mmm about the value of Isi reports. They are not as impartial or rigorous as Ofsted and not objective. Any school with early years funding will also be Ofsted inspected , so you have a comparative. Be wary of small schools , they may struggle to retain younger staff and merge classes to remain viable. If your dc is good at sports for example there may not be enough in each age group to compete with other schools and develop.

How can a school recruit at triple the fees of the local competition? That's absurd. Literally absurd. Eton is not even triple other schools. What on earth are they getting to justify this fee expenditure? Is it full wrap around care? Even that should not make such a difference. Around here, not even the boarding prep my DD went to was triple the fees of the day schools. I am just going away to check out the current situation..... I am confounded too. However, I still know where I would be headed....!

Cracked it.....t4sh4. The Benedict House fees are annual fees!!! You need to divide by 3 to get the termly fee quoted by everyone else. It is normal to quote termly fees! They quote the same figure for their schools here.

To put this into some form of context. DDs old prep school is now £4820 per term for years 3 to 8 for Day pupils and it includes an extended day to 6.30 pm and all meals. Boarding is £7,080 per term for years 3-8.

Thanks LIZS. I didn't realise that ISI reports were not reliable. They are extremely well written and very readable. The Ofsted reports seem very 'template-y' by comparison. But I will definitely try and pull up the Ofsteds for all three as well.

MMM - you are absolutely right about the fees bit. That makes perfect sense.

Can I bother you with another question? How much value should I place on various accreditations? WL has accreditations and affiliations with ISA Independent, AGBIS, ISBA, DFE, UK. BH and MC have none of these...

Again, I really appreciate the time you all are investing in helping me out. Big thanks!

Also... MC are waiting for me to send my acceptance form back to them along with bank details, etc. and place an order for the uniform. I have already paid my registration fee (£40) and filled in the registration form. It was only when I had to send the acceptance form off that I got cold feet.

I don't see WL and BH till the first week of March (this being half term and we are off on holiday the week after). Is there any way I can stall MC while I come to a decision?

Does MC have a date when acceptances have to be returned? I would ask the registrar if the date is not on the form. I would have thought by the end of this term is normal. Just say you are on holiday and will sort it out on your return!

Affiliations are normal for schools but it is often because they want to be in a "club" of like minded schools. For example, my DDs boarding schools were both GSA, Girls Schools Association. They are pro educating girls! The associations are also useful for marketing and probably provide a conference for the Head to attend and other courses. I don't think it is a bad thing.

ISI Reports tend to look for the best and skate over the failings. Given that they haven't done this at MC, would make me really want to look closely at what they are saying. If I am honest, the school appears antiquated and is possibly being held back by the owner. It has good staff, but not evaluating the Head's performance is very poor. In a state school it would be illegal. Obviously lots of parents judge a school by what goes on in the classroom but most parents don't know how that experience could be improved. This is where ISI come in. They used to give loads of notice before they turn up and my DDs old school wined and dined them, put out loads of flowers and generally embroidered what the school offered which the inspectors, being too few and too inexperienced, believed. The resulting report was pure fiction - literally untruthful. You also do not know how quickly a school is acting on the report, unless they are prepared to tell you. They can completely ignore it. You could ask West Lodge how they are implementing the recommendations from ISI when you visit. The fact Benedict House has not been inspected since 2007 is odd, but, it is not a state school so Ofsted are probably less concerned.

OFSTED reports follow the latest formula but that is so that they are to the same, monitored, standard. ISI reports follow a very old Ofsted model. The other aspect is that state schools have a "data dashboard" giving the inspectors all sorts of info about the school. Parents can see it too. Independent schools don't have this,so the judgements on progress tend to be woollier and, often, are not based on anywhere near the amount of evidence a state school would have to produce. Hope this helps.

Thanks MMM. You have quite literally been a lifesaver. I am going to be going into my viewings at BH and WL much better prepared than I was when visiting MC.

Will post on here and let you know what we went with in the end. But BH would really have to pull something out of the bag to make it into the shortlist at this point. Hope WL doesn't disappoint. I am quite taken with it - on paper.

Thanks every one for responding to me, especially MMM. Just wanted to return to the thread and post my feedback on the 3 schools in Sidcup. I have now visited West Lodge, Merton Court and Benedict House. Here are my thoughts -

West Lodge - The students seemed extremely well settled and content. The school hall is tiny. Very limited outdoor space. The classes are quite cramped. Art room, music room, etc are very small as well. I did get the feeling that it might start to seem really claustrophobic once the children get older. The environment is very driven towards academic achievement. The headmistress is lovely but seems to lack dynamism. Over all the school reminded me a bit of an old age home. Things were very organised and everyone seemed perfectly at peace in what they were doing but I want a school with a bit of character and a bit of a buzz. It seemed lacking in energy.

Benedict House - Again, extremely cramped. Classes were tiny. No facilities to speak of. It didn't look like any money had been spent on the class rooms. The children are pushed very hard academically right from Early Years. Some children are even doing addition before they have reached Reception. They made a point of stressing that they try and make sure that every child is at least a year ahead in English and Maths at all stages. The focus was entirely academic and whereas we are looking for a place where the child will be encouraged in all areas - academic and extra curricular. They promised to email me a leavers list which I still haven't received 3 days later. This school was, in our opinion, the poorest of the three.

Merton Court - We loved the school when we saw it on the Open Day. Very well maintained. The owners have spent a lot of money on new classrooms and extending the school. They have their own astro turf, hockey pitch, swimming pool, very good sized school hall, Forest School in their own forest and ample outdoor space. The head teacher is extremely impressive and takes great personal interest in the children. He coaches various school teams and also teaches core subjects like Maths to the older children. We had some concerns after reading the Ofcom and ISI reports but we brought our concerns up with him and he spoke to us about them at great length and we left feeling very reassured.

We have almost made up our minds and are going to go with Merton Court. We feel it is where DC will get the most opportunities to develop their interests.

We still have not sent off the acceptance letter so would be great to hear from any one who has kids in any of these schools.

T4, hope you read this before tomorrow. Come to the open day tomorrow, 07Mar, at Benedict House. Year 6 children will show you around and you will be able to see some of the children's work on display in the classrooms.

I have one child there and one to start in September.

By the way, there is a 'light touch ' Osfted report from 2010.

If you miss the open day tomorrow just ring the school and make an appointment to come and view the school. No fancy facilities but the caring nature of the school and the good results are worth it. Come and get a feel for yourself.

Oops, should have read the thread to the end first before replying.

All the best with MC. They have great facilities, am sure your child will enjoy these.

Hi .

We are new in the area and I have checked the websites of all 3 Ind schools but haven't made my mind up. Please does anyone have an idea of what the fees are at West Lodge School?

Thanks.

Hi everyone, I’m relatively new to mumsnet and will be relocating to Sidcup with two boys (3-year old & baby) next year. I’m struggling between Merton Court and West Lodge after visiting both schools, both seems well run with impressive leaver list. Any views or sharing of recent experiences please? Any advice would be greatly appreciated, many thanks!!

Hi,
I'm looking at West Lodge, Benedict Prep and Merton Court to send my son to. Has anyone had recent experience with these schools? I'm open to any suggestions of excellent all through independent schools in the Bexley area too. Thank you!

Hi,
I'm looking at West Lodge, Benedict Prep and Merton Court to send my son to. Has anyone had recent experience with these schools? I'm open to any suggestions of excellent all through independent schools in the Bexley area too. Thank you!smile

Hi, We have just registered DD for Merton Court to start in summer. Just wondered what everyones experience has been like so far. Would appreciate any feedback also by PM. Thank you x