Dulwich Prep 3+ Assessment

[NoLuckThisTime]

So, we found out today that DS didn't even get onto the waiting list for Dulwich Prep 3+ nursery. I know it's a numbers game and there were 6 or so boys going for every place there, and he doesn't mind because he wasn't even aware he was having an assessment, but I feel miserable about it, absolutely miserable.

DPL was the only place we went for assessment this year and so we will be applying again next year at 4+ and also for all the other selective preps around including some that draw the selective line slightly lower down but it still really, really hurts to think that there were 60 plus little boys who they wanted in the school more than my lovely DS.

They wrote a lovely (obviously standard) letter saying that despite clearly trying very hard they weren't able to offer him a place. Oh the ignominy!! My son trying really hard and it's still not enough!

So, what did the others do that got them in and what didn't he do that meant that it wasn't enough to get him over the line (that is, assuming that he wasn't the last little boy that they would want)? And I know that this hand wringing is all very indulgent of me but I would like to understand.

I know all parents think their child is clever but I have to admit that I don't quite understand what was expected of him. Last night we were sitting together reading stories and he started using the my pen to write letters free hand - he can write 3 and recognizes about 7 or 8 maybe more, he loves to sing and knows all the words to all his songs, he can draw pictures that are recognizable (cars, planes, superheroes, Mummy & Daddy), holds his pencil better than I do, builds all sorts of things with his batman Lego - I'm thinking that that's pretty advanced even if the cohort of applicants is pretty advanced as well. He can count (properly not just reciting) up to 3, sometimes 4 and recite his numbers up to about 12 and he's not yet 3! I guess what I'd most like to understand, did they see all that stuff and determine that it wasn't enough or did he not show them that he could do that stuff?

I know in many ways that I'm lucky to be having this dilemma and the nursery that he's at at the moment is outstanding and I have no concerns in keeping him in for another year but it's like being dumped, but worse, 'cos it's my precious DS that they're talking about, even if they are telling the truth about being sad they couldn't find room for him....

I do have a thought that it might be more of his social skills - he can be very shy or just go all quiet with new people. His nursery often make references to how he is coming out of his shell and being chatty (inferring that he spends time in his shell) - he's very, very chatty at home but like me and his Dad I think he's a bit of an introvert and may take time to warm up in a group or with strangers - could it be that do you think?

And what will they be expecting of him next year at 4+?

Does anybody have any experience of being turned down at 3+ but getting in at 4+?

no direct experience of DP but at I think what they looked for at our school was

confidence
desire to have a go
ability to listen to instructions (and follow them!)
maturity
good vocabulary
ability to recognise numbers and letters (numbers were definitely 1-9)
knowledge of colours

But to be honest, it's not a science and the kids who were selected with my dc are now in Y5 and are a very varied bunch!

Dulwich has so many options - Ducks, DP, Alleyns, Rosemead - are the ones I can think of. He will get into one of those next year - do not panic!

Thanks for the reply, Fleur, I'm feeling a bit more pragmatic about it all today and you're right there are loads to try for next year.

On overnight reflection, I think it's probably a confidence/joining in thing as I do think he tends to hold back from joining in things at pre-school for a while. He normally does join in eventually and enjoys himself though.

So I guess we've got a year to ensure he builds more confidence with people he doesn't know so well and to join in more quickly, which assessment or not, is not a bad thing for him anyway. As a bit of an introvert myself I've developed the skills to seem very confident but I do remember even at 6th form struggling to join groups etc and I would rather he didn't have that struggle.

Still, I was kind of hoping that sending him to private school was going to help him develop that confidence not that he'd have to exhibit it before he even got there aged 2...

We've got a parents evening at his nursery next week so lots to talk about!

Sorry your DS didn't get in NoLuck.

Not sure about 3+ but our DS did DPL 4+ a few years ago and got in although we didn't take the place at that point. He's just done 7+ there and this time we've gone with it so he starts in September.

I agree with what Fleur said as I really don't think there is anyway schools can test for academic promise in a 3 year old. Instead I think they are looking for children who seem eager to explore new things, happy to join in, eloquent for their age, good listeners etc... Basically, children who will be easy to teach.

They don't need to be massively outgoing, just quietly confident.

For the 4+ at DPL I seem to remember DS had a one on one interview. They discussed electro-magnets but he has always has been a bit strange - suspect talking about your family is more normal), was asked to spell his name and then some group activities including some number sequencing, listening to a story and then singing. May also have done some reading I think?

I remember being horribly stressed about it as the first thing he said to the interviewer when she introduced herself was 'Nice to meet you but I don't want to look at your school thank you as I'm going to go to school X instead'.

Thanks, Tired, just out of interest why did you not put him in there at 4+?

It's funny isn't it, I find him really easy to teach but then he's my number one fan so I suppose it's different. He builds strong relationships with his carers and is very chatty with them but with some of them it has taken him a while to get to that point. Certainly more than the hour they got.

But the more I think about it and what you guys are saying here, I think I just need to make sure his social skills are up to scratch , making sure he says hello to everyone in the morning and says good bye in the evening, which can at the moment be a hit and miss affair! He's getting there though, perhaps 2.9 (which was his age at assessment) is just a bit early for him.

It so difficult isn't it - I was top of my class all through pre-prep and then went to a prep where they put the kids into classes based not in age but ability and leapfrogged a class every year - I was very, very easy to teach but I didn't start talking properly until I was 3, so I wouldn't have got in a 3+ either! I suppose that's why they have 7+ etc..

I was painfully shy all the way through until secondary school so I'd have been totally stuffed! I think it is more or less random who they chose and who they don't at 3 or 4 as they are still so small and their moods can vary from one minute to the next.

DS and DD are only 12 months apart and so we decided to go for a co-ed pre-prep to keep them together initially make the school run a doddle.

We've had a stressful few months though as after looking around DPL again, DS completely fell in love with it so the 7+ has been quite high stakes.

Can you ask your nursery to do some practice interviews with your DS before he does the 4+ next year? Ours was very good at this and I think it really helped DS feel comfortable with the process.

Yes, that's a very good idea - they have posters up advertising Royal Russell so they must be used to kids going for assessment.

DPL is a lovely, lovely school and congratulations to your DS, Tired!

Tiredofwetsheets - good luck for the 7+. Can I ask what nursery was prepared to help with practice interviews? I am planning childcare options from 1+ to give DC best chance at 3+/4+ exams. I am preggo now but hear best nurseries / feeder (nannies/au pair?) need early planning. Any advice much appreciated!

I think that the most important thing they are looking for at 3+ is ability to sit still, listen, and follow instruction. Whether or not this predicts a good student or even if this method is good at picking the brightest children is pretty clear to me - it does not. However, it does make life easy for the school in question.

I particularly think this is a tricky age for boys, and many very bright boys would be overlooked if the criteria for choice at 3+ is the ability to sit still and follow instruction easily. I know it was for my DS1, who "failed" his 3+ into an 3-13 school. The reason why he failed was that the headmaster asked him to draw a self portrait of himself, which he did. DS then said to the headmaster that he would like to see a self portrait done by the headmaster. I knew then that he would most likely NOT be chosen by that school! To top it off, they walked by the playground on the way back from the interview, and DS ran off to play on the slide instead of walking quietly at the head's side. Ah well...

Instead of this school, DS ended up as a school which suited him - nonselective and chaotic, and one where boys running around and touching things was not not considered a problem. Best thing for him as he was able to develop without restricting his innate curiosity. He seamlessly transferred at 7 to one of the most selective London preps attached to a superselective senior school which parents wring their hands over to enter (and actually got acceptances at all of the top schools he applied for).

Good luck with 4+, but remember to keep things in perspective.

I think it is very difficult to gauge intelligence at 3+. Having been in a pre school setting there are some obvious stand out children who would have no,problems getting in at 3+ (children who can recognise 3d shapes, count to 100, know many colours, can read simple words as well as being able to sit still, listen and focus), but those children are few and far between. It wouldn't surprise if somewhere like dulwich had quite a few children who stand out and are capable of the things I mention above because it is very selective. It doesn't mean that those children who cannot yet do those things are less intelligent though and they might overtake the early stand out children within a couple of years. Children develop at different rates and I think selection at 3+ is very bizarre. Try again next year but be prepared for tough competition.
Could you consider not trying again until 7+? It is easier to assess children at 7+ as everyone has had some formal learning and a chance to develop by then.

What prep school was that Momi? I sent mine Hill House, non selective, and they did very well at 11 and 13+ (Inc a scholarship to DC) I usually keep my head down in treads like this because I think such early testing is
frankly bonkers and as quietly suggests more about weeding out the feisty ones.

A poor little boy who's a failure at 3. I despair!

You must have Ben confident not to apply to anywhere else so it is disappointing news.
Sounds like his reticence to speak to adults and being "in a shell" could be a factor as he perhaps didn't stand out in any way and lacked theconfidence to participate fully, if he was shy and on the Fringes they maybe didn't have much to go on?
I would apply tomore than one place for next round.
There are threads on here about "wallflower "children (not sayin your child is one but maybe some tips)
Good luck

Hello, we are in the same situation and I was wondering what was Noluckthis time experience for 4+ at DCPS ?

I remember being in the same situation over two decades ago. DS now has a Masters. The only things I remember from the assessment was that the teacher asked him to predict where a marble would emerge from a marble run, repeat back a sequence of numbers and perhaps asked him to describe the action in some pictures. The boy from the same nursery who did gain a place had a number of older siblings who had attended previously. That child later had to be removed from a selective school, so being chosen at two does not predict success in subsequent education / life.

My DS 'failed' to get into Dcps twice - once at nursery and once at 4+ - but then got offers for DC and Dcps at 7+. Some kids mature at different rates. Testing at those young ages means nothing - it could be a simple case of him not being in a good mood in the day it's got nothing to do with intelligence or long term prospects. Don't stress - he will get into the right school for him when the time is right.

Hello,

Yes having not got in at 3+, he got in at 4+

I don't know what the difference was and I don't think it was anything to do with academics tbh - I'm just happy he got in. Sone say they can just recognise a Dulwich Prep Boy and some say it's about getting the right spread of personalities etc - I don't know but I know that there not much you can do in preparation. Also, I do think it's really important to not set your heart too much on something- I think I was getting a bit over focused back in 2015 - something I worked on for the next year.

He's blooming at the school now!

In the year between my unlucky post and him getting I. We looked at other schools and found some less selective ones that were lovely schools that I was happy to have as my 'next best alternative'. We were going to put him in for 3 - DPL, Alleyn's & Royal Russell. DPL was first and our first choice so once we got the place there we removed him from the process for the others.

The plan was to send him to Royal Russell if he didn't get in the DPL and try again at 7+ - by that time we would also have a better idea about whether DPL was going to be right for him or not.

Good luck everyone!