what age to start worrying if your child constantly reverses letters

[whathaveiforgottentoday]

I'm wondering if any primary school teachers could shed some light on what age you would expect children to stop reversing letters and numbers (3 and E, b's and d's, p's and 9's).
My dd has some other issues and struggles with spelling (doesn't apply phonics knowledge) and writing in general. Her maths, reading and other subjects are above average on all her reports so far. School are not worried, but I am, so I would like to gauge when she should be growing out of the reversing letters and what age you would start to be concerned.

How old is she?

year 4, just about to turn 9.

Interesting as my son (5) does this too. He's ambidextrous though so I put it down to that.

My DD still does it, she's just turned 9. I am going to be having her assessed privately for dyslexia in the next few weeks as the school have persistently brushed off my concerns. She also has poor spelling and has never really grasped phonics. She is a very good reader but has learnt by sight not phonics.

i should add that she has been having private tutoring by a former teacher who agrees that I should have her assessed.

The school say it's "attitude". I'd rather fork out for an assessment now and be told that yes it is attitude, than work on attitude for a few more years and then find out that she is dyslexic after all.

As a teacher, I would say it is still common in year 3 but by this point in year 4 would be less common. As she has other issues with writing it would be something I would like to discuss (if it was just reversal I would look at practice at home as it can often occur through habit and that's how the child forms that letter and they need to work on breaking the habit). I would ask for a chat with the teacher, highlight your concerns, ask how you can help support at home and how she is being supported in school. If you think it is necessary, as for the SENCo to join the meeting - even if it's just for advice. Good luck

Ok, thank you as that's what I wanted to hear. She also learnt to read by sight and picked up reading really quickly.
I asked them to review it at the parent's meeting in October and I have mentioned it in previous years but I've heard nothing since. I haven't been too worried at this school because she's had quite a bit of intervention and is clearly making progress so I don't think the primary school would do anything differently and I'm happy with what they are doing.
However, I would like it assessed before she goes to secondary to see if there is an underlying cause so I'm now going to be more pushy and ask for a meeting with the senco.

Who knows - how do you go about getting a private assessement. Do you have to go through the GP?

I think I may look for a tutor as well to try and bring up her literacy. I would be less worried if her reading and maths were equally weak but there is such a disparity between her writing ability and everything else.
I should add she is a total scatterbrain.

My dd did this at a similar age - I remember worrying about it a little. She doesn't do it anymore - I'd forgotten about it. She's in Y7 now. I hope this helps.

Get school to check her visual memory and visual spatial skills, that's often a big cause without dyslexia being involved.

No, not the GP. I have been getting recommendations from other people I know who have dyslexic people in their families, I have three people to ring up next week and discuss DD with before I take it any further.

I suspect also that DD's school wouldn't do anything differently, she is getting quite a bit of support already. But it is getting her down that she is constantly being marked down for attitude problems. I may also want to switch to a tutor who specialises in dyslexia. I am also thinking ahead to Y6 SATS, secondary school, needing more time for exams etc.

Rumble - that's exactly the sort of thing I want to ask these people about, I'm not very knowledgeable about dyslexia and similar conditions.

'Specialist dyslexia teaching' will be mainly based on phonics; it has been since the 1920s/30s. Unless, of course, they have changed direction now that phonics is mainstream..

Just thought you might like to know that in view of your statement that she 'struggles with phonics'. Have the school done anything to help her with phonics?

Thank you all. I'm not sure it is dylexia as I'm just as concerned about her lack of organisation as her writing difficulties but would like it investigated.

Does she use cursive handwriting?

Yes, get investigated by suitable professionals if you can. Meanwhile, this should help with Phonics:

An inexpensive and easy to use book, that can encourage children with reading, spelling and writing, and really help them to understand Phonics, is reviewed in the MN Book Reviews section. Just search ‘Phonics’.

I wouldn't bother with a private assessment. Waste of time and money. It is not of ant value to you at all, as most come back just saying what the parents have paid to be said. The school will not take any account of it at all.

Specialist dyslexia teaching? There is really no such thing. There are as many types of dyslexia as there are children.

Is she left handed?

yes she is left handed and yes learnt cursive writing last year which helped her handwriting enormously.

She had extra help last year for handwriting and phonics. She has made progress but is still behind.

My son is left handed and got letters and numbers mixed up for a long time. It sorted itself out eventually.

I disagree with Caronaim above. The Ed Psych report we commissioned for our son was a very technical report that accurately identified issues.

The school had to take it seriously and changed their attitude from a tendency to punish him to an attempt to accommodate his needs.

It is more difficult to reverse letters when using cursive writing ... but it depends on good teaching. Often children who reverse letters and numbers start in the wrong place - the common one starting with the line and not knowing which side is b and which is d or p or 9, usually cursive handwriting solves thus.

It isn't uncommon for children who learn to read by sight to find spelling more difficult because they haven't learnt to look closely at the word working their way through left to right.

If there is an improvement since the intervention I would say continue working on these (at home & school)

My son (7) does this. He has been assessed by an occupational therapist who checked his visual processing and motor skills. Very enlightening. And now we have exercises to improve his visual memory and sequential memory.

If she is found to be dyslexic then please don't worry. It just allows herself and others to better understand her and show her ways to work better.

I am dyslexic, diagnosed at 11. I am now 30 and work in a job where I read and create technical reports. My reading and wrighting age is now 14 (thanks to years of extra lessons and my mum who judt wouldn't stop trying to help). It took me until I was 20 to get my head around my issues and copeing mechanisms to a stage where I felt truly on top of things. I still have to get my colligues to spell check anything important that I send out but they don't mind as I can do technical checks for them so it evens out and we work to our strengths as a team. Over the years I have had comments like "you don't look like you have a disability", "I thought you were cleaver" and "oh it is nice to meet you, I thought you would be a chav (from a blind date who I had been texting)". I see each as a challenge to show how good I really am.

Myrtille, no the school does not have to take it seriously, in fact quite the reverse. As I said, parents can pay to have ANYTHING written in private report. They can just get one after another after another until they get one the like.

So, I am sure you appreciate, it would be impossible for schools to act on them, some of them give information directly opposedto the schools own assessment!

The LEAs I have worked for have always had a policy of totally disregarding them. The are often filed on the premises, and staff can read the if they have time, but actually they are used more to inform us about the parents, than the children.

Only the assessments comissioned at he school by approved assessors are taken into account.

I'm sure you can see it would be completely unmanageable to read and act on all the private assesments that come pouring in to a school. Even to find time to read them would be impossible for teachers, and even if you did, you would not remember the hundreds of pages produced, and even if you did the value of that information would be very highly suspect.

( incidently, the one student whos assessments I did browse through once contained the diagnosis " Sharon has had too many assessments! - this was true, she had a whole filing cabinet draw to herself, her parents were known to have a serious problem)

Caronaim, this is exactly the problem that many children/ parents and professionals face. This type of attitude. Yes, there may be such professionals who will write what the parents want to hear (I haven't come across any). However a reputable clinical or educational psychologist will NOT do this. You can not make up test scores. Schools, often due to lack of resources can't assess every child and, to be fair, most teachers do not have have detailed training / knowledge of dsylexia and other neurological impairments which can cause great difficulty in the classroom. A specialist can do much more detailed tests than any classroom teacher and SENCO. OP , do not let this attitude put you off. Having confirmation or not that your child has SLD and various suggestions for helping will be invaluable and if you are unlucky enough to have a teacher that won't take any notice or arrogantly dismisses it because it doesn't fit their tests ( which it doesn't sound like you do) then move schools! Any professional worth their salt recognises their own limitations and where their expertise starts and ends. (This is a completely different scenario from a parent who goes around commisssioning lots of different reports!-that parent probably needs some counselling and support)