Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Original poster

The implications of an after-school prayer group

27 replies

cuppaInHandKittenInLap · 05/02/2015 09:26

My DCs primary has a fairly limited range of after school activities - a choice of one or two activities a day - mostly sport, with a bit of drama/chess/dance for those who are into that sort of thing.

I know some schools supplement a range of activities with something generic, like a homework club, so that they can provide a more formal extended day arrangement, but our school doesn't. Nevertheless a lot of parents like me do rely on the after school clubs for childcare cover. (After all, if you only need cover for an hour after school, it can be quite difficult to find cost-effective alternatives - most providers expect to have your child until 5.30/6pm, and charge accordingly).

Now they're introducing a new after school club - a Christian prayer group, and it's been billed as lots of fun, with games, craft, puzzles, cooking etc. My DC likes the sound of that much better than the athletics club she currently does. The only trouble is, we're not Christians, so I'm naturally reluctant to let her switch.

Ok, so this is a CE school, and all parents are supposed to support the school ethos (which we do as regards the formal curriculum), and this is an optional activity, but would it be unreasonable to write to the head to suggest a more inclusive alternative?

OP posts:
Heels99 · 05/02/2015 09:29

I am not religious but even I can see that a prayer fun group in a c of e school is perfectly reasonable. Presumably all kids can attend subject to space so how is it not already inclusive? It is not excluding in religious grounds as it is a c of e school and people know that when applying.
I think you will look bonkers if you send a letter to the head! But do offer to set up, run and manage an additional group of you have the time and skills.

theowlwhowasafraidofthedark · 05/02/2015 09:29

The club is probably being run by unpaid volunteers so imho it would be unwise to criticise it before its even started.

You have my sympathy though.
I'm an atheist but I let my dd join in with this type of activity, she has to be able to choose her opinions for herself even at this early phase.

AuntieStella · 05/02/2015 09:48

I think you'll be more persuasive if you can make suggestions about an additional (rather than an alternative) after school club. Becuase nit every club will appeal to every pupil, whatever it is, and I don't see anything wrong with a CofE school offering what sounds like an after school Sunday School (IYSWIM).

And it would be even more persuasive if you can make suggestions about how it would be provided - who would run it, how any costs for materials/activities would be met etc.

Original poster
cuppaInHandKittenInLap · 05/02/2015 10:02

[Sigh], yes I had a feeling I would get that response. Trouble is the school has been approached by all kinds of interesting groups wanting to run clubs (for a fee obviously - but still cheaper than full blown wraparound care), and has turned their nose up at them on the grounds that there is no room in their after school schedule. (Actually, I think the Head just doesn't like having people in the school after-hours - unlike some schools they don't have locks on classroom doors etc, so reading between the lines I think she feels it's a security issue).

However, many of the current activities are over-subscribed - so perhaps it is time to write and suggest they find a way of extending their range.

OP posts:
catkind · 05/02/2015 10:04

Can see your dilemma but unfortunately I think that's a very reasonable thing for a CofE school to offer. I don't think we can really insist in the interests of honesty that all religious groups should involve sitting on hard pews for an hour listening to prayers. Of course they're going to make it fun and age-appropriate.

I think the problem is in relying on after school clubs for childcare, which is not what they're for, even if they are a cheap way to do it. I think some CMs are paid by the hour for after school care, maybe ask around about that?

And actually a choice of 1-2 activities every day sounds like great provision to me, unless it's a huge school.

AsBrightAsAJewel · 05/02/2015 10:53

As a, now part time, teacher I would like to raise a couple of points

  1. voluntary clubs are not childcare. If it is run by a teacher (unpaid) and they are off sick, at a meeting or on a course they will be cancelled. If they are run by volunteers it is exactly the same. They are enrichment not compulsory. It is different paying for a service- you can then have an expectation they run. Otherwise they are just a bonus. I find the parents who take up valuable space at, say a gymnastics club, but whose children really don't want to there really frustrating. It blocks a place for a child who is really interested just to be free childcare.
  2. the choice of one or two activities a day is not "limited".
Original poster
cuppaInHandKittenInLap · 05/02/2015 11:10

AsBrightAsAJewel - none of the clubs my DCs use are free. Apart from the drama and the prayer group they're all run by external providers and paid for by parents. I believe the school charges the providers for the use of the facilities too.

OP posts:
AsBrightAsAJewel · 05/02/2015 11:20

But sending children to use a cheap childcare still blocks places for children with a genuine interest in the subject. Many of our clubs are run by outside companies as teachers just don't have the time to provide all the parents demand.

tiggytape · 05/02/2015 11:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
cuppaInHandKittenInLap · 05/02/2015 12:03

AsBrightAsAJewel - she goes willingly to the clubs she already attends and does have a genuine interest in them. I said she had expressed a preference for the prayer group (well at least the baking/games/craft etc), not that she hated the athletics and was desperate to find something else.

Like all responsible parents I spend a lot of time finding the 'best fit' childcare arrangements for my children, and I am absolutely convinced that going to an after school club with her friends is 100% better than the next available option of being marched to a nearby after-school club in an illuminous road-safety jacket to hang out with kids from other schools doing not very much, and paying three times as much for it. Or hanging out at the local recreation ground in all weathers with the one or two local childminders that accept children on 1-hour slots.

OP posts:
niminypiminy · 05/02/2015 12:50

If she's keen to go to this group what exactly is the problem?

Original poster
cuppaInHandKittenInLap · 05/02/2015 13:13

Well, niminy, for one thing it is run on a voluntary basis, so as AsBrightAsAJewel says, it is a less reliable form of childcare than the athletics club, which is professionally run.

Apart from that, it's my natural disinclination to expose her to religious instruction, masquerading as other fun activities, although she's welcome to be a Christian if she wants to be (her considered view to date is that she isn't, by the way).

I could let her go for a couple of sessions to see what she thinks, but that would mean giving up her slot at the athletics club, and we may not get that back. Plus, frankly, exercise is something to be encouraged, as she's naturally inclined towards things that are a little more sedentary (another attraction of the prayer group I guess, along with the fact that it will be run by her favourite teacher! Smile).

OP posts:
tiggytape · 05/02/2015 13:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Heels99 · 05/02/2015 13:18

The only issue here is that your dd fancies trying the prayer group over the Athletics. is you prefer she doesn't attend a group that features prayer, even though you happily send her to a c of e school, Then just say no sorry dd you signed up for athletics so we are sticking with that for now. If you ask school to provide a non religious activity in the same slot, they will,probably point out they already do that with the Athletics!

Original poster
cuppaInHandKittenInLap · 05/02/2015 13:20

Well she likes athletics at the moment. There's a strong risk that she'll declare that she hates it now that there's an attractive alternative on the table. Smile

Still, we'll cope.

OP posts:
niminypiminy · 05/02/2015 13:20

So, basically, she has to go to an after-school club because you use it as childcare, but you're not that keen for her to choose which one she goes to?

catkind · 05/02/2015 13:21

Think of it as aren't you lucky to have clubs she is interested in and they happen to provide the amount of childcare you need on some days; it's not something that I'd expect of a school, certainly not every day.

So on the day in question you need to decide what the balance is between your wishes, your DD's interests, and cost. You do have a school option, apparently two school options. You just need to decide if that's preferable to cheaper or more expensive CM options.

atonofwashing · 05/02/2015 13:35

Maybe she prefers to be indoors during winter and running around outside in summer?
I'm not religious, but at the moment I think I would rather be indoors baking a cake with my friends!

Can she switch back to Athletics in the summer term or could you just tell her she can't start changing her mind when she fancies something different?
I'd be telling my ds the latter. Even if I'd rather be baking ;-)

Think yourself lucky to have a place in a CE school. I wish we'd been offered a place in the ones we applied to.

Adarajames · 05/02/2015 19:22

I take it you're not in London, Faith schools here are so over subscribed that you do have to prove you rite and church attendence to get in! So many schools have no clubs etc any more, you're very lucky to have any, let alone a choice!

atonofwashing · 05/02/2015 20:24

Adarahames - hear, hear. Too true.

Adarajames · 05/02/2015 22:03

Faith not rite

Caronaim · 06/02/2015 20:50

Absolutely, asbrightasajewel.

The school has a wide range of after school activities, an the choice is inclusive! After school clubs are NOT childcare, and if a member of staff volunteers to run a Christian club in a Christian school then you are incredibly fortunate to have that option - no one is making your DC go!

It would be absolutely ridiculous to expect another teacher to volunteer to entertain your children for free in some other activity just because you don't want to pick the up yet.

Caronaim · 06/02/2015 20:52

Homework clubs are often by invitation only.

ElsieMc · 07/02/2015 20:10

Our primary runs a paid-for after school care alongside after school activities which only run to 4.15 pm. Some parents see after school clubs as free childcare, which they are not, to avoid making payment. The school has had to be firm about collection times as some parents were not turning up until much later for their children.

That aside, the christianity club is very popular, full of cake making, games etc and always full as it also runs that bit later, surprise, surprise. I don't see what concerns you would have about this as your child is already at a CE school.

We must be lucky here because most of the schools locally really make the effort with before and after school provision as it means they will attract more pupils, even very small village primary schools.

Eva50 · 07/02/2015 20:24

Our school only has one after school activity a sports club which starts 30 minutes after the children finish school so you have to collect them and the return them for the club and it's only once a week. Two activities a day sounds great. We do have an AFC at £10 a day.