Y1 reading - I feel like I am constantly pestering the teacher

[Naicecuppatea]

My DD loves reading and is zooming through her school books which she gets every night. Since starting Y1 she has moved up a few reading bands, each time I have asked if she could as the books are very straightforward for her, she is reading them on the short journey home without any problems, and then going on to her much loved, much more difficult chapter book she is reading at home.

I need to ask her teacher again if she can move up another reading level as I feel the books she is sent home should challenge her in some way. Last week when I asked her teacher said she should read more books in the same level so that she can improve her comprehension and understanding. We've been doing this and asking questions about the story and her understanding is fine.

Am I okay to go back to the teacher do you think? And why isn't the teacher picking up when she needs to change level before I need to say something?

Thanks for reading - sorry for the long winded message!

Feenie you aren't getting it at all. Of course I know the phonics backwards.I wasn't always a teacher, and won't be for ever I hope ( the pay, life work balance and the constant scrutiny and Spanish Inquisition), but in a previous life. If the children finish the stages are they not allowed to become a free reader? I don't know why subject matter matters? All kids books are chaste and everyone understands them at their own level anyway.

As they get older, a reading level is given based on their ability to complete a written comprehension test. They must be able to read and comprehend the question and then form an answer in a sentence. For a lot of children I teach, this is very hard. Although they have good comprehension skills and can orally give correct answers to a question asked, their writing ability holds them back when it comes to the test. I often have parents in querying their dcs levels as they are much better at home (when they are able to just say the answer). Unfortunately, we don't get a say on the testing we have to do and as such we would be unable to advance their level until they improve their written comprehension skills.
Maybe your school is 'holding back' as they don't want to trip up dc later by giving her a level that they might not be able to replicate when it comes to the more complicated tests further up the school.

I would definitely make an appoint with the teacher and ask what they are doing to support your dc as it sounds like she would be classed as gifted.

You are contradicting yourself all over the place, poppy, so no, I don't understand your point. You told me your explicit phonics knowledge was poor - yet you know the phonics backwards

The whole aim of teaching reading is so that a child can read anything - as the passage I quoted from the Year 2 curriculum demonstrated.

Year 2 children cannot read everything and neither can an adult unless we swallowed a dictionary. Neither can we sound out everything in English or predict completely how every word is pronounced. I thought the point about the phonics was obvious. I obviously know all the rules now... I meant before. The aim of phonics is oral reading. Many adults if you adked thrm to read aloud would stumble over words. You try it. Typing on phones is frustrated.

No, but this one is sufficiently proficient in that she is reading Spiderwick Chrronicles, etc. She shouldn't, therefore, be reading Stage 8.

You have, in turns, argued both that she should and should not. Your stage 8 reader can read anything, but has gaps which mean he has to 'jump all over the place'. Your own explicit phonics knowledge is 'poor' (present tense) but of course you know phonics backwards!

Either you need to give up typing on your phone or I should probably stop reading!

Have to agree, Feenie, that you are in the middle of a very odd conversation!

Naicecuppatea: My DD loves reading and is zooming through her school books which she gets every night. Since starting Y1 she has moved up a few reading bands

So why are u concerned?
If u want to stretch her more, take her to the library or get some second-hand books. Now that she has clearly mastered the basics, the more she reads, the better she'll get.

The reading levels make English-speaking parents go a bit doolally because they don't understand well enough what learning to read English involves.

The first stage is simple enough: mastering basic phonics, i.e. learning the main sounds of single letters and common combinations like 'ai, ou, sh, ch'.

Gradually things get harder, because 69 letters and letter strings have more than one sound (an - any, sound - soup, supper - sugar...). They make just over 2,000 quite common words less easy to decode than the ones with just the main sounds. The more children learn to recognise those on sight, the more fluent their reading becomes.

This is rarely clearly spelt out, but the reading levels are essentially about how many of the tricky words a child can read instantly. Until they do, their reading remains more hesitant, with lots of stumbling.

This is rarely clearly spelt out, but the reading levels are essentially about how many of the tricky words a child can read instantly.

^^This

As an example, my daughter is a fluent reader and she doesn't stumble over words at all but sometimes, she pronounces them wrong because she hasn't come across them before. I listen to her read aloud mainly so I can correct these but you don't need (in the main) to always know the word to work out what it means in the context of a passage of a book. The very act of reading it gives you the meaning.

Her problem now is that she wants to read aloud as quickly as she reads in her head and therefore tends to mumble and drop the endings of words. We're working on the premise that reading aloud is a performance activity and not actually about reading at all.

Enb76,

No-one, not even skilled adults, can read aloud as fast as they can read silently. Also, I read somewhere that adult 'read aloud' speed not fully reached until about age 18. So I hope your daughter is amenable to reasoning!

People may be surprised that I say this but I don't think that mispronouncing the odd word when reading silently is particularly 'wrong' so long as it is just the odd word and that the meaning of the word is known. I bet everyone here has had words that they mispronounced silently for years (and then were embarrassed about when they said them aloud, wrongly, in conversation!). It's when both pronunciation and meaning are unknown that problems arise.

This is rarely clearly spelt out, but the reading levels are essentially about how many of the tricky words a child can read instantly.

Really, marsha?

From which respected reading researcher does this little gem emanate?

Hm - DS phonics ability is somewhere between blue and green books in phonics book schemes.
He has read all the 'blue' phonics books at school and is therefore now being given old non-phonics blue books. These are obviously not matched to his phonics ability at all. Parts are 'too easy' and parts are far beyond his abilities.

The only way we can get more 'phonics books' from school is by asking to go up to green. But I feel he could do with more practice on blue; the class teaching is still at a level where they have only done the main spelling per sound (if that) (he is in reception and there is no differentiation) so all his 'alternative spellings' have been taught by me, and I am not really keen to keep on teaching him new stuff/move on to teaching him alternative soundings for known spellings. Especially as I feel he could do with some more practice on the current stuff (alternative spellings).

But the blue books we are getting are not providing practice for his phonics ability.

I suppose it is time to look into Reading Chest?
Any experiences/recommendations?

When do children stop getting reading books from school incidentally?

In Juniors?

Meita, I'd look at Oxford Owls first, and your local library if they have anything appropriate - they're free!
You could also have a look at some of the phonics books on Oxford Owls at green level - I don't think they do much new phonics beyond alternative vowel spellings so you may find they're okay after all.

TBH phonics books on green will probably be easier and more appropriate than non-phonics books on blue anyway.

Thanks catkind. Unfortunately our local library has barely any phonics books. When I last tried Reading Owls DS was not impressed at reading on a screen; but that was a good while ago so I'll have a nosy and and try it again.
Thanks for reminding me.

Reading Chest is awesome. I could have brought decodable books home from my school when his school were tucking his reading up, but Reading Chest delivered them in a big important envelope addressed to him which he lived, as often as we liked, which was a big incentive.

*tucking

My kindle is more chaste than I am at 1 am on a Friday night. That's probably a good thing.

Ofgs, I give up

Hi. I often only read threads. Being a teacher I find parent perceptions interesting and change how I feedback to parents based on what is said on here. However I think it's only fair that a teachers point of view is portrayed on this thread.

1. Comprehension is 90% of reading assessment in year 1. If you are unsure of the different areas Google them "af assessment for Reading".

1. Asking your child what has happened in the book is NOT comprehension. It is recall, which I would expect all of my year 1 children to be able to do. I advise parents to ask 2 questions per sentence, yes it slows down the reading, but that way you can dig deeper into the book. E.g. The cat jumped on to the dark brown wall. Possible questions for year 1 could be: who jumped onto the wall? Can you give me 2 adjectives to describe the wall? Why do you think he jumped onto the wall?

1. Teachers are highly accountable for children's progress, I struggle to believe that any teacher would hold a child back when this is how they are judged for performance management. Also teachers are teachers because they want to teach. They want to help your child.

1. Talk to your teacher, they are busy but they can give you example questions to ask focusing on the AF that your child is finding hard.

1. Read harder books than those being sent home together, yes! But do read the school book, the teacher is trained to teach and there is a reason your child has that level of books.

I hope this helps, albeit I am sure this is a very controversial post.

One word of warning about zooming through the levels.

At some point, the school will run out of age appropriate books for her. This is what happened to my eldest son. Luckily, the teacher and I anticipated this and made him read books while focussing on something different - such as alternative endings, punctuation, building vocabulary or adjectives.

Or we'll read a very easy book and discuss the cover, the artwork or how it could be more exciting...you get the picture!

When ds got bored I got him do reviews. They were hilarious and quite brutal

Hope you get some great alternatives for at home. Your daughter sounds fab.

teacher1989 that's a really useful response on the comprehension, thankyou, I always feel lost trying to think up comprehension questions. As are WowOoo's suggestions for alternative things to focus on.

However, how does the assessment being on comprehension relate to reading book levels? According to feenie's comment about the NC upthread, reading book levels should be based on phonics not on comprehension assessment? Or have teachers just decided that's wrong and are ignoring it?

At the end of the day DS teacher does not have an option to assign books for educational reasons, whether phonics or comprehension, when the school only own 4 books at each of levels 7-9 And given that I can well believe they were held back on level 6 for longer than strictly educationally necessary too. Wouldn't you?

The reading/ writing discrepancy is interesting. My yr1 grandson reads fluently and freely at home and anything he is given at school but his writing is minimal and almost illegible although the spelling is excellent.

I will give up typing on phone.

Stage 8 reader: poor comprehension, phonics gaps.
Explicit phonic knowledge refers to the fact I was not taught phonics explicitly - as children are now. I know the phonics rules and apply them now.
Parents need to chill about children and their reading level. The point is stories which are enjoyable. As adults we don't always read, some people never read, challenging books. It is like the hang up of handwriting over the actual writing. Was your imagination stimulated? Is the knowledgeable of language and vocabulary enriched? Until children can read fluently thee most important thing is to be told and read stories...more stories and endless stories. So begins the creation of a reader for life. I don't mean to belittle my profession but any child, given an adequate teacher and more importantly supportive parents will learn to read. If they are lucky enough to come from language rich environments full of discussion they will learn to do this very well... Both on language and comprehension fronts.

Handwriting and writing are not like linked. One is fine motor development and the other is stimulated by the imagination. If JK Rowling got someone to type he manuscript as she talked who wrote the book? Boys, in general, are slower in wanting to write. Fine motor development can also lag behind girls. If they find something they are interested in and stimulates their imagination they may take a pencil in their hands. You teach a love of stories, you create a language rich environment, you feed the imagination with their interests and create more and you create writers before they ever put a pencil in their hands. It can be as illegible as you like but what have they written independently?