single sex schools

[beaksnout]

I've just had the benefits of single sex schools explained to me for the first time, and I feel enlightened!

Less gender stereotyping (which really annoys me), fewer distractions, children are happier to take risks because they don't fear falling flat on their face in front of the opposite sex, and crucially, most evidence suggests the culture in single sex schools aids academic achievement.

Apparently it's a myth that single sex schools are good for girls and bad for boys.

I'm now struggling to think of the advantages of a co-ed school. Perhaps it's useful for building friendships and confidence with the opposite sex, but I think that's probably rubbish because my boys will mix with girls outside of school all the time.

Does anyone have any experience of sending their children to a single sex school? What are your thoughts?

Specifically, we're thinking about Pilgrims School in Winchester.

We've moved ours from co-ed to single sex and I would add that in schools with small classes there is the benefit of more friends of the same gender to choose from (friendships do tend to segregate along gender lines, esp from year one). The downside is the ability to interact with the opposite sex, but if you have opportunities for your boys to maintain friendships with girls out of school then that is great.

Thanks, I hadn't thought of that but it's true :)

Ds1 moved at 8+ to a boys' school. It's very good for him - he's into music which was dominated by girls at his previous school, and he's found some like minded boys who don't like rugby and football. There are many more male teachers than at his previous school which has also been good for him.

I think my lack of conviction that single sex is best is based on:

1. They often claim no gender stereotyping but also that they know how best to teach boys/girls (delete as appropriate). To me, this suggests a belief all of one gender learns / behaves the same way, which is gender stereotyping in itself.

1. If the fear of failing in front of the opposite sex is so massive, I'm not convinced avoiding it until 18 and university is helpful. My primary age DC are currently unaware of gender issues. If I sent them to single sex schools I think I would be suggesting to them they are inherently different to the other gender. For girls in particular, given the overall portrayal of women in media etc, I don't want to increase / reinforce this belief. I'd rather they grew up alongside opposite gender in all aspects of their lives, as they will have to live them as adults.

But everyone responds to the arguments for / against single sex in their own way. I don't think there is conclusive proof one is better than the other. If you are lucky enough to have the choice, just pick the option which most appeals. For me that would always be co-ed.

Good point! I wonder if teachers genuinely believe there is a 'best' way to teach boys and a 'best' way to teach girls?

I think the fear of failing in front of the opposite sex is a red herring actually. Dd is at an all girls school and as such compares herself to her peers all the time. If she fell flat on her face in front of her classmates she would be mortified. The competition, comparisons, rivalries, are exhausting. DD takes an hour to get ready in the morning perfecting her look (hair straightened, make up, skirt at 'cool' length etc) so she won't be judged by her same-sex classmates. Because They Notice.

• She is secondary obvs. No hair straightening in primary!

I asked this question too recently (see link below). I think people take what they want from the evidence. I found it easy to see why and how single sex between the ages of 11-16 for girls is a better option.

In a utopian world of enlightened parenting, egalitarianism etc I'd be all for co-ed.

As for girls behaving worse in single sex and the presence of boys somehow neutering that - it's empirically wrong. Bullying, harassment and the like are lower in single sex girls schools. Instinctively it isn't true either. Adolescent boys individually but particularly in groups can be knuckle dragging neanderthals that will think nothing of shaming girls for a laugh. I think its best to gain confidence and maturity before having to tackle that. It's too much to expect a 12 - 13 year old to deal with that.

On top of that the desire to focus on appearance, for example, doesn't reduce when boys are around!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/education/2250321-Single-sex-debate-again

Dig into the evidence and see if you change your mind.....

If the fear of failing in front of the opposite sex is so massive, I'm not convinced avoiding it until 18 and university is helpful.
I think you build up a self confidence in your own abilities, and by the time you hit uni, you don't worry about things like that. That's what happened to me anyway.
I don't think there are necessarily benefits in the primary years to single sex education, but I am a strong believer in it for secondary years. However, I think that it is extremely important that outside school, children should be able to mix with members of the other sex.
Both DH and I went to single sex schools, and both our DC will be doing the same. Both of them requested such schools.

I went to both single sex and co-ed schools. DH was at a co-ed primary and an all-boys secondary.

If the choice is there, we will be sending our DD to an all-girls school.

One of our main motivations is not perhaps a usual one...

I entered puberty very late, as did my mother and my MIL. Given how genetic age of puberty is, DD is likely to follow the pattern, plus has a growth hormone issue that pretty much guarantees it and she may well need to have puberty medically induced.

It was hideous being at a co-ed school - all my friends had breasts and boyfriends at 14. I looked like a 10 year-old and certainly none of the boys looked at me the way they did at my friends. When I finally started to develop at 16.5 years, the comments I got from the boys were mortifying. They used to assess whether or not I needed a bra yet amongst other delights like telling me that no-one could date me as it would be paedophilia.

Even if it wasn't a bed of roses at an all-girls school, at least I wouldn't have had every ounce of confidence removed where boys were concerned. The first time someone asked me out at University, I burst into tears thinking they were playing a joke on me the way they did at school.

I want my DD to be able to go to school without wondering if boys find her attractive or have her confidence knocked.

A lot of single sex schools do try and link up with boys schools especially in the 6th form for debates, projects and social occasions. They can also meet boys/girls at activities outside school, or through friends, cousins, siblings etc.

I went to a same sex school from 6 to 18, so did all my siblings in Spain. I'm extremely grateful for it since it gave me a ton of confidence and the best friends up to this date. Already closer to 40 than 30 when I go to my home town I still meet with girls from school and are still my best friends. My siblings have had the same experiences and a level of friendship I have just seen coming from these type of schools. There is no noise or distractions and definitely when I was 14 boys that age seem miles behind. We were always able to discuss openly any issues and not worry about self confidence issues and since we really grew together we felt pretty equal. My husband did not and his best friends (all male) come from university which means they have no bond prior to being 18 which to me misses out a big part of who we are as people. As longs as you ensure they interact with boys/girl in clubs, holidays or just with family they will be ok!

The problem I have come across in girls schools is the far higher pregnancy rate, which I put down to the girls being somewhat in awe of boys, and more biddable than they would have been if boys were just a normal part of life.

Caronaim

That's quite a claim. Do you have some statistics to support that?

The ONS record the rate as less than 0.3% of 15-17 year olds.

Taking a secondary school average size there might be, say, 500 girls in that age group. So, on average, you might expect to see one pregnancy every couple of years at any particular school. However, in general, I think it is safe to assume that conception rates decline with better education.

So how many teenage pregnancies at girls schools have you seen?

www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/vsob1/conception-statistics--england-and-wales/2012/2012-conceptions-statistical-bulletin.html#tab-Key-Findings

I went to a single sex school and hated it.

Obviously, I can't make a comparison with being at a mixed school, but in my experience the following issues were widespread.

Unbelievably bitchy behaviour
Competitive disordered eating
Lack of confidence when relating to boys, even in normal friendship situations
Horribly judgmental/competitive behaviour regarding clothing/looks
Being looked down on by the "cool" girls for being clever

Altogether, a rally horrible experience and one which I am determined to avoid with dd.

I enjoyed my single sex school up until 16 bug wish I had then gone to a mixed sixth form. I found it hard in the first term if university to have boys in my small seminar groups and felt very shy.

I have sent my 2 DDs to a girls school though (it has the best results/reputation in our area), but will certainly think about moving them for sixth form.

I have read all the arguments on both sides and decided that co-ed was the way I wanted to go. I have a mix of both so no issue with not mixing but I still couldn't quite reconcile how unnatural the whole single sex atmosphere felt. We visited a range of both but for me, the co-ed schools just seemed more like real life.
Yes, some of the single sex independents we looked at had soaring exam results and ds2 who is considered gifted would have done very well there but I think he'll do equally as well academically, and certainly socially, as the excellent co-ed independent school we chose. Likewise, I hope my dd will do equally as well there. It's a real family feel and it's lovely to see brothers and sisters all learning together.
Incidentally, lots of girls choise science Alevels at our school. Also, D&T isn't dropped at GCSE but run along with IT and food tech all the way through. The HT is a woman with an engineering degree.
Maybe it varying from school to school.

I've been to a couple of talks/seminars recently from non-UK schooled academics working in the UK who are struck by the gender stereotyping and sexism that exists in our UK society (and the US). It just "isn't a thing" elsewhere (e.g. Israel, former Yugoslavia, etc).

Our society seems to ooze sexism right from early school years and outside observers make it clear that it is ingrained, implicit and accepted by those who grow up in it.

There was a really interesting piece of research recently where nearly 200 identical CVs were sent for academic posts. The only difference being the name "John" and "Jennifer". The Johns were overwhelmingly offered jobs/interviews/higher statuses/wages than the Jeniffers. The killer fact is that the offers were just as gender biased from women as from men!

I fear that in the UK we don't even know how sexism is affecting young females at school. The idea of single sex education is alien, but it may be allowing development sheltered from a force that many don't even sense due to deeply ingrained socialisation of sexism.