In the news: are your local primary schools at breaking point?

[KateMumsnet]

Hello all

Research published today by the Labour party suggest that one in five primary schools does not have sufficient capacity for their pupils, with class sizes exceeding the statutory maximum of 30 children, and children being taught in temporary makeshift classrooms. Also in the news today, the Local Government Association is warning that 880,000 extra places will be required in England by 2023, pushing some schools to breaking point.

Is your child's school affected? Are your local schools under increasing pressure? And what's to be done? We'd love to know what you think.

In my area of the Thames Valley schools are hideously oversubscribed. We actually bought our house in catchment for a less popular school 2 years ago do we would at least be guaranteed a place. Last year the less popular school became much more popular and this year (when we apply) I have no idea whether we will be successful or not.

There are 9 primary schools in our part of town. All oversubscribed. Most 2 form entry, but almost all have accommodated a couple of bulges over the last couple of years, so less playground space due to the portakabins and more children crammed in. The poor kids at the recently opened free school are camping out in the corner of a local park whilst the locals squabble amongst themselves about whether it's needed and where it should go.

Where we originally lived our nearest school was 30 per year, took a bulge class both 2 and 3 years before my eldest started school. Her school year had 29 siblings apply, so only 1 new family (the very nearest) got in. We (and all our local friends) ended up travelling miles to other schools, because we unable to be close enough to our nearest school, and were beaten on distance to the next 4 nearest schools. We were "fortunate" to get a place at our 6th nearest, my neighbour ended up at the 7th nearest. It was a joke, as many of the "bulge families" were also travelling from miles away to the end of our road and had not chosen the school - it just happened to have space in the playground for portacabins. An absolute mess for everyone.

We moved 100 miles away and managed to get everyone in the same school (not the most desirable school, but a vast improvement on old school). The schools didn't seem so rammed here and we did have a choice of schools which was massively refreshing. But two years later, loads of new houses have been built and the schools are filling up - DS's class now has 36 children. There is another huge housing development on the horizon (3000 "affordable" family-sized homes apparently) and no plan at present to build a new school or hugely increase an existing one.

And I absolutely agree with pp who wrote that there is even less planning for secondary school places. In both areas we've lived, the authorities' planning appears to be along the lines of crossing fingers that huge chunks of the population find Jesus, go private or emigrate.

Perhaps encouraging (instead of positively discouraging HE and flexi-schooling) would be a sensible measure. And halting large estate creation without proper infrastructure.

Mrs Tawdry

But that's exactly the problem. There is no mass building programme of either housing or schools and there has been huge population growth since the 50/60's and no real effort to relieve the problem.

The government needs to allow LAs to open schools. It's absolutely shameful that only academies and free schools can be opened under current legislation.

There isn't money to open schools LAs have had their education budgets cut while millions are wasted on empty free schools

Nope, honestly no issues here in our town.

We also have immigrants and a 10k population boost new build (plus a new primary) getting started.

I never have trouble getting a GP appointment either!

Rural East Anglia, very few schools are 'full up'.

Bilberry -I've also heard that LEAs estimate that one school place will be required per ten new homes built, even on estates of family sized houses. Madness.

Our local school has a bulge year in Reception. Seems to be the result of a new development and general population growth. Many of the children have younger siblings so there will be a knock-on impact on the availability of non sibling places for several years to come.

There are no issues where I live according to my friends. But the LA paper also said that of the live births this year over 26% were to mothers not born here. I think it is uncontrolled immigration that is causing the problem as immigrants can just arrive and places have to be found in schools...even if there are no places. We need a system where places are allocated first to children whose parents were born here. Children of immigrants should pay for private education....although I realise this will not be popular with Guardian readers

Does that need to be both parents or just one parent who was British born, mmm1701?

Regarding the number of places needed for new developments: On my purely scientific sample of 1, when we moved onto our new build, out of the closest 7 houses there were five 4 year olds and three 2 year olds. Not quite as bad as it sounds for our closest school, as one had moved only a couple of streets, and two moved from within town after reception allocation and stayed at schools originally allocated. But there are 4 additional children (2 in 2015 intake) from only 7 houses. I suspect if housing market had been less uncertain most of these families would have moved in better time for reception allocation.

According to R4 report this morning, 2 reasons for increased pressure- immigrant families and their tendency to have more kids and British- born people (of whatever ethnicity) moving out of large cities in much greater numbers for a better quality of life.

No problems here. The opposite in fact.

The primary school my DD went to was usually between 24 and 27 in a class. That, combined with the fact that there are 2 secondaries serving 5 primaries (one of them a small village one), there is a low number of children entering the closest secondary school and it has lost it's 6th form provision as a result. And some good teachers too as a knock on effect of that.
Luckily, my DD never intended to carry on in the school for 6th form and wants to go to a college to do it instead, but I feel it's a shame that the choice is not there.

mmm1701 well that puts my children into private then! DH is Aussie. So my children would go to a mythical private school which I can afford yes? Or I suppose they could go down the mines or something instead?

Do you realise that the mother not born here statistic does not reflect the mother's nationality?

It includes me, born abroad to a British mother, friends with 2 British parents working abroad or in the forces stationed overseas.

It's utter rubbish.

I do have a number of friends who are big believers in a contributory benefits system. They think that if you emigrate to the UK and are not British citizens that you shouldn't be entitled to out-of-work benefits, housing benefit or social housing, free healthcare (should be paid for by country you normally reside in) or free education until you have paid taxes here for a certain number of years.

If you can't afford private housing, or to HE or privately school your children for those years then you shouldn't chose to move here.

I can see this way of thinking becoming increasingly popular in areas where there are severe shortages of school places and housing and very large numbers of recent immigrants. Nothing gets people more riled up than being unable to get an education for their children - more so even than housing I would bet.

I live in a village. We have an infants school. When the children finish, they used to have a choice of two junior schools.

Now one of those schools has changed its admissions criteria to favour a different catchment area - and because they are VA, they can.

So the 30 children from here need to go to the other school. But sadly, they only have room for about 15, max. No-one seems to know where next years cohort will end up...spread around a number of schools, probably, including the dreadful "special measures" school 2 miles away that no-one wants to go to.

Our town really struggled with 2014 allocation, with additional places created at the last minute. The trouble is these extra places are not in the parts of town with the excess demand and nor are they popular schools. One side of town, had all schools massively oversubscribed. Several people who put down their 3 closest schools got allocated a school other side of town. people with older children in out of catchment school (but their closest school!) got a nasty shock when no out of catchment siblings got in.

They are at least planning ahead as expanding several schools for 2015, but these are not on the parts of town where the population demand is and nor are they mostly performing well (eg the school with the worst ks2 results even though it doesn't have the most deprived intake).

Meanwhile there is a hugely undersubscribed free school. Because it is very hard to take on a new unknown school for your child which didn't have a building yet, and I don't think it is within walking distance of any houses at all.

They have schools planned for new developments but yet again those schools don't open until a few years in, meantime they are in catchment for our towns schools.

They think that if you emigrate to the UK and are not British citizens that you shouldn't be entitled to out-of-work benefits, housing benefit or social housing, free healthcare (should be paid for by country you normally reside in) or free education until you have paid taxes here for a certain number of years.

Why count it in number of years rather than in amount of tax contributions? A high earning foreigner - of which there are many, particularly in London - may well pay more taxes in a few months than some British born and bred have ever paid. And once other countries take retaliative action we will be deluged with British ex-pats scurrying home, their tails between their legs, asking for housing, healthcare and education.

If you can't afford private housing, or to HE or privately school your children for those years then you shouldn't chose to move here.

Seriously? You want to set the income bar so high that people have to show themselves able to find 20k+ per year for private education before coming here? You do know that this would utterly destroy our universities, our scientific research, our engineering companies, our financial industry etc etc. All of these recruit highly skilled foreign workers, generally on decent salaries, but not necessarily salaries which suffice to pay school fees.

Didn't Labour under Gordon Brown remove a lot of school places, despite the evidence that more places would be needed a few years down the line? Why aren't people angrier about half-full failing academies and free schools in the wrong areas draining the education budget?

My DS started Reception last September in a relocated school, so all brand new buildings and facilities. It was moved to a new estate so expanded by 20 places. Even before it opened it had to take a bulge class!!! Parents are understandably disgruntled that their kids are starting in a brand new school in a portacabin.

I moved out of central Plymouth because of primary school places being such a headache. Though to be fair I believe there are enough places city wide but not in the desirable schools and or the closest.

I feel relieved and lucky I was able to move for a nice school. I realise this isn't an option for most.

Local school has a two class entry which will go to three this year. And yet the 400+ school has an after school club with 25 places and three year waiting list for a place on Mondays. Something like a joined up policy would be nice.

Our town and the nearest 3 towns are all fine. Each of the towns has a few schools that are oversubscribed as they're outstanding but some good schools are undersubscribed so no one near me doesn't get a school within walking distance. However in all these towns, the number of non church schools is low so whilst they can get in without religion, they would struggle if they didn't actually want a school that is religious.

lljkk and Mrs Tawdry, I think, yes, both parents born here in order to access public services including schools. Otherwise we might see convenience marriages. If people can't afford to buy a house and pay school fees then the answer is simple....don't move here. And it's rubbish to say it would destroy the financial sector. Of course it wouldn't DD works in the City and most foreign workers buy property and the private schools in London ( which I know personally) have many kids of these workers. Universities, in the main take single students. It is ludicrous to suggest they would be destroyed. Highly skilled foreign would have to pay school fees...simple. This would end the shortage of places in schools which have been built by British taxpayers over many years. What is the problem with that?

mmm1701 we can't blindly blame immigrants for our increase in number of classes. All accents, here, are very very English, save the one Chinese family who have been here forever and a few people from various other parts of Asia who have been here longer than I have. Even the resident Glaswegian moved back up there, a few years ago.

What should immigrants who have children with someone British do, btw? Pay half the school fees? What about Brits who have never paid any tax in their lives? Maybe their kids should be forced to simply grow up uneducated because their parents haven't earned the right?