Choosing a school for DC but also have younger identical twins? Help!

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Hello, we are currently in a bit of a dilemma. We are selecting schools for our DS & have 2 real choices, a 1 form entry outstanding highly rated school (10 min walk) and a 3 form entry school which requires improvement but nice feel and confident they will make the changes necessary (25 min walk).

Now if it was just DS we would probably be choosing the one form entry school, it's closer, we liked it when we looked around, although it was very small. However, we also have identical twins (18 months) - they will be 3 school years behind DS and we are thinking that if we choose the one form entry school, we will have no options to separate them, but in the 3 form we would.

However, we then feel bad that our son wouldn't go to the outstanding school, but then I guess when you have multiples these are the trade offs.

I would love to hear from anyone with identical or non identicals (or if you are a twin yourself), who separated / didn't separate their twins and what your experiences are. I think our DS would get on fine at either school, although would be slightly better suited to school 1. And I'm def not doing 2 school runs!!

Going round in circles and would really appreciate the voice of experience / reason. Thanks!!

We have loads of twins in our 3 form school. Most have been split but not all. The ones where they have been split is because one twin was likely to stay in the shadow of the other. This is obvious by age 3. Splitting means both get to form individual identity. The ones that stay together are generally where they had seperate friends and interests anyway so this wasn't going to happen. One set in my DC reception year never play with anyone else as they stick together in class and playtime. A very experienced teacher friend told me she always felt sorry for twins in small schools.

My best friends at school were identical twins. They were separated in infants but chose to be together in juniors. Always part of the same wider network of friends at secondary and as adults cannot be separated. I've been how amazing and how tough it is to be an identical twin. Unfortunately it is impossible to predict how important separation could be for them.

One thought. When your eldest goes to secondary in yr7, you could transfer them to the larger school if you felt they really needed to be separated. I know it isn't ideal, but it would be a get out if the small school doesn't work out for them.

I have identical twins, not school age but I would not want to split them.

Not a mum of twins but am a mum of children that went to a satisfactory school and I was a nanny to twins whose parents faced a similar dilemma.

The parents of the twins sent them to the school further away that was big enough for the twins to be separated when they went.

When my first child started school there was a choice between a outstanding school and a satisfactory school. Look at when the school got the ratings all an outstanding school can do is go down. A satisfactory school can go up. Schools go down as well as up. Go on what the school seams like when you look round, are all the children busy doing work. If a school deals well with both ends of the spectrum. (bright and not so bright) kids then most children will do well. Another clue as to what a school is like is do staff stay for a long time. Before we moved over seas our kids did very well the school.

We put our non-identical twins into different classes from Reception onwards. It was the right decision for them. Now in Y6, they get on v.well at home but can be competitive with each other in an academic setting. This year they are in the same set (of 4) for Maths and English and it is having a detrimental affect on their relationship and on DD's self-esteem. We have applied for different secondary schools for them.

I'm a mother of twins.
It depends on the twins.
Mine are non-identical.
They needed to be together in infants, but have benefitted from separation in juniors. However, they would also have been fine if the school had been single entry - they are quite different personalities, and equally matched and don't need to be apart.
10 minutes vs 25 minutes school commute is actually a big difference, particularly if you are thinking school run with toddlers.
If you were to put your elder son in the closer single entry school, it is likely that the twins and/or he could transfer to the other school in a few years if being together in the same class seems intolerable. I also agree with the other poster, that you could swap when they reach juniors and your son goes to secondary school.
It is easier to swap into a less good bigger school than into an outstanding single form entry school, so in a way gong into the single form school now is giving you choices later.
Also you need to make this choice mainly on what suits the older child now given that you are not sure how it's going to work out for the twins. it's guesswork for them, but you know now what will best suit the older child.
BTW: TAMBA have some good resources/questionaires online to help you make the decision re staying together or splitting apart in school

We chose a 2 form entry primary for our twins. They were in Reception year together and then in different classes for the remaining years.

They benefitted from being together when they started school, but they are very competitive with each other and it would have been dreadful for them to live in each other's pockets if they had been in the same class. As it was, the school set and they were taught maths together in the same group and even then I had to ensure that they were not placed on the same table as each other...

They saw plenty of each other during the day (play times and lunch) and although there were 60 kids in the year, they had the same small circle of friends: not a great thing for them.

In the same secondary school together now but in completely different classes which do not mix. It has been great for them to make friends independently of their twin.

I think you can only make the best decision that you can now for your DS1, you can't predict right now how your twins' relationship will turn out and what their needs will be in 3 years' time. You might have to endure a few years of different schools... who knows? That possibility may not look so bad in a few years' time. Good luck.

Just to add, the obvious, that all twins are different. the research shows that while separation MAY aid some twins, it can also hinder others. Some chidden find separation so traumatising that the negative consequences can be tracked up to the end of primary. so it really isn't a one size fits all thing.

this document from TAMBA might help: www.tamba.org.uk/document.doc?id=236

Wow, thank you for all your helpful and quick replies - it has confirmed just how tough this decision is.

Thanks for the suggestions re moving later on - it may be the only way but oh god this is so hard, I feel physically sick!

Make the best decision for your DS now - who knows what will happen over the next 3 years. You might end up moving elsewhere, or anything. If you are still there, you can make a different decision for your twins then - it's always possible for a year 2 child to go to a friend's house, or to breakfast club or even a childminder briefly for 20 mins before and after school so you can take siblings to a different school if that is what is right for them.

My ds has twins in his class who haven't been separated despite it being 2 form entry. They seem fine.

Why is school 1 better suited to DS? I wouldn't want to live him later so school 2 offers more options?

I'm a twin

We were together for infants then separated for juniors (7+)

It was the best thing for my twin who was totally in my shadow -I couldn't have cared less either way

Not all primaries will move children about in classes and the same children are together from reception to yr 6 despite being multiple form entry

It's a question you need to ask

I think it depends on the twins too.
In my primary we had non-identical twins. (both boys)
Twin 1 was clever, arty, musical, good memory, very confident.
Twin 2 was sporty, and struggled with all the above.

For one day a year (Sports' day) Twin 2 was top. The rest of the year he struggled.
They would have been best split as Twin 2 saw no point in trying.

And they used to argue in lessons
"yesterday twin 1 said..."
"No I didn't"
"You did, and then..."
"Well you said..."

But at secondary there were identical twins (higher up than me) who had chosen to stay in the same form. It seemed to suit them-I seem to remember they even went to next door neighbour Oxford colleges to do the same thing.
The only issue I remember was they had to be placed at opposite ends of the room in exams because they were perfectly capeable of producing identical answers-even essays word for word, so they had to put them with no chance they could be accused of cheating.

no experience twin wise other than twins at school who were together at primary and separated at secondary, it all seemed to work very well for them when we were growing up but then more schools were just one form entry in primary schools so it was more common I expect. twins at my DC school are usually separated in R but I assume that is in consultation with the parents.

I think you have to just look at your eldest child at the moment. in another 3 years time you may well find the school has had to expand anyway. unless you live somewhere really remote most schools in this country are having to expand rapidly.

Mine started with a separate session at playgroup once a week.

They went to a single form primary. They used to be split for some activities which was fine, until the much loved dance coordinator took one for a special project and the other who wanted to do it just as much could not because her twin was doing it .

I did worry about them always being in the same class, but an adult friend said she went to a very small school with her twin. When there was someone else to play with, they played with them, and when there wasn't, they played with each other. She said they were very happy and never lonely. Another mother of twin boys said her life had been hell, with them knocking the stuffing out of each other. Eventually, she worked out that they were bored with each other's company and she went into school and got them to separate them more in class. There are always things they can do within the class to separate them when necessary (but this can lead to tears as above).

At high school, they were separated. One got all the friends and the other ended up with a classful of girls she was never going to have much in common with. We stuck with it. It was hard at times, but the form teacher was good. In the end, they were in the same sixth-form form, but doing different subjects (except one). In a lot of ways, the quieter one who had the problems has become more robust.
Quite often, they had the same subject teachers, either in the same year (different classes) or from one year to the next. It is interesting that some of the teachers had no problems with this, and others could not separate them in their minds and only saw what was the same. It is very noticeable on parents evening and reports.

We tried some separate outside activities during the primary years. It meant a lot of running around and confusion for me, so it gradually fizzled out at high school. At one dance group, the teacher (who I know well) said they could be a bit naughty together which made things difficult. They could behave badly in front of other people - a bit like a married couple who wash their dirty linen in public - and I had to call them out on this - it is embarrassing, but they are much better now. Their interests diverged far more during sixth form.

They are at separate universities on the other side of the world from each other, but still close.

There was some research that came out when mine were little, about whether they are better seperate or together at primary school. The answer they came up with was that they did better if the parents were happy

As an educational professional and mother of twins I believe passionately that they should never be in the same class. School is the place where children start to develop their own individual lives - how can they do that if their twin is with them 24/7? It's unhealthy.

I have b/g twins and an elder daughter. We had two schools within walking distance, one two form entry and the other single form. We chose the single form because that's the school we liked the best. DTs are Y1 and so far it feels like a good decision. They are both pretty good academically, but very competitive with each other, so suspect there will be some rocky times along the way.
Essentially, what's hard about this is that no one can give you much help - you know your kids and your situation best and all you can do is make the best decision you can. A couple of things:
As someone upthread has said a 10 minute vs 25 minute school run is not insiginficant. For you and the DTs that's 40 minutes a day versus 100 when the older one's at school.
I would have found it very hard to separate my twins in reception - much more so than I would have expected when they were two and we were looking at schools for DD1 (guess that could go the other way though).
I wouldn't worry too much about the Ofsted stuff - what you think/feel about the school is far more important.
Good luck with it, whatever you decide...

I'd say it definitely depends on the twins. Though I'm not sure personally that separating siblings, same or different ages, forcibly is a good idea, if they're close and want to socialise with the other, I think it's something they should be encouraged and want to do naturally.

I'd also stop thinking of them as twins, and start thinking of them, and treating them as individual same age separate identity siblings. Not saying you do this, but I know of so many people create their own 'twin' problems by not doing this from the outset.

My own twins are in classes together, but go off immediately to their own friends. My only concern when they are sometimes put together for activity is that they might argue, as siblings tend to do

"School is the place where children start to develop their own individual lives"

Stuff and nonsense! That might be the case in your own situation. But my twins, and other DC, were distinct individuals long before school age.

We always separate twins at our school. The only time we didn't was when one parent flat out insisted it didn't happen as one of the Twins had a disability and needed the other twin to 'take care of her' It was horrible (for both children), and in Grade three the principal put her foot down and they were separated from then on. It made a huge difference to both children.

How ridiculous caravan, they develop as individuals because they are two different people.

My DD goes to a half form entry school, so there are mixed year group classes. Last year, in a Y1/Y2 mixed class of 30, there were 4 sets of twins and two sets of siblings...

The recommendation is that schools should always make the decision in consultation with parents as twins are not some distinct entity for which all the same rules apply, but siblings, with individual relationships. Blanket rules are inappropriate.

Several parents have now challenged schools who have forcibly tried to separate twins, and the Department of Education has ruled in their favour (they have to show that the school did not take the parents and children's wishes/circumstances into account). It will not doubt become law soon that schools cannot, legally, force separation (or togetherness).

BTW: You should also check whether the two entry school will let your twins stay together if they want to, in Reception. It could be the kids get to four and you think, as I did, that it would be cruel to put them in separate classes, only to find that the two form entry school puts up a fight and wants them in different classes. You could take it to the DoE (as above). But who, really, wants to start a new school with a fight with the head.

DS in year 4 at single entry village school, outstanding and a lovely atmosphere. DTs b/g started in reception last September. They've had no problems, sometimes they play together but more often in a group or with other children. They have settled in well and when I've had to take one home when I'll part way through the day the other has been fine. So far it has worked out ok. They are individuals and I don't think one is in the shadow of the other.

It depends on your children but agree with others it would be easier to move to a larger school than vice versa.