Bright child who doesn't want to learn...

[elfonshelf]

DD is 5.5 and at an Outstanding primary school which we are very happy with. However, we are all struggling with her. She's a very bright child and has, we are told, outstanding verbal abilities for her age.

One of her teachers asked to have a word with me yesterday. She had done a reading session with DD and she had refused to read at all and told the teacher that she 'didn't like this learning stuff as it wasn't fun and she didn't want to go to school'.

Eventually she was persuaded to read. The teacher said that she did okay, but was still way behind where she was for her ability. Also that she was able to read with intonation, expression and comprehension that was far in advance of her reading level - basically completely the wrong way round.

We struggle at home with convincing her to do any reading, despite a house stuffed full of books - her own bookcase probably rivals the local library in terms of choice and quantity. It's the same with any kind of homework. Utter refusal.

School say that she is not competitive in any way and is a complete perfectionist.

She's a very stubborn and persistent child. Bribes don't work, taking things away don't work, banning TV etc until reading is done doesn't work. School have advised not to go down the threat line. They're going to put her on an intensive schedule with their reading expert and see if that helps.

Suggestions by the school that learning would enable her to do more interesting things were pronounced unconvincing, a suggestion that learning would enable her to get an interesting job in the future was met with the response that she didn't want to get a job, she was going to marry a rich man! (no idea where that comes from - DH and I don't even have a joint account let alone tick the 'rich' box!)

I'm at a complete loss as to how to motivate this child.

she's only 5.

I would just totally take off any pressure on her.

A lot of kids respond badly to pressure.

Just read TO her, would eb my advice. She will leaner that way that reading and stories are fun.

And saying she does not like "learning stuff", I'd take that with a pinch of salt.

Again, she is only 5.

Just an idea which popped into my head as reading this. Does she have any other interests eg cooking or craft? Could you do some cooking where reading the recipe is required, or where she needs to read the instructions for an activity or game? So the reading itself is secondary to the end result of the activity, IYSWIM? Might take the pressure off, and make her realise reading can be very useful!

What the hell are you on about, windingways?

She is only 5 so I wouldn't put the pressure on. Does she enjoy playing computer games - the kind on cbeebies website, etc? Things like that where there is reading involved but it doesn't seem like reading will help.

We also played games while out and about which involved looking for words or name on shops beginning with certain letters, etc. This was to encourage her to walk on longer shopping trips but it obviously helps with the reading too.

As someone else said it's quite normal for them to have to decode the same word over and over on a page- and often it's the simpler looking words that they struggle with (in my experience of reading with children at my daughter's school of a similar age).

One thing I use at home with my sometimes reluctant reader is to read one word each on the page - she reads one I read one. And I also used to encourage her with the more challenging books that we were reading to her and say she would soon be able to read these. Getting her to read one or two easy words or a sentence in a chapter book that she's enjoying having read to her may help her to see that there is a future beyond the simple books and that she can do it. We found this helped - it often took quite a lot of persuasion - I'd do silly things like say 'teddy wants to hear you read' to get her to do it.

Firstly she is young. We get hung up on the idea that you need to read to be able to learn - which is far from true - there are masses of other ways to learn.

And secondly I think the most important thing for getting kids reading is to find something that they want to read. She will learn when it suits her - when she wants to know what it says and not wait for anyone else to tell her. So if it means so much to you that she learns to read sooner rather than later, then find something that suits her.

Just phonics - and she has no issues with decoding or blending. What she doesn't seem to do is recognise words... she could have the word 'happy' 4 times on the one page and each time she will sound it out rather than recall it from the previous sentence.

This screams dyslexia to me, my dd can only write and spell words in phonics.

Any homework that is done, she has a fit over her handwriting - it all has to be perfect and fit on the right lines with the letters the same heights. She doesn't want to cross things out - she wants the whole page out and to start again!

This too, avoiding doing the actual writing by making a fuss over the handwriting.

She is a bit young to diagnose dyslexia but these are things my dd done and she is now being officially tested for dyslexia.

I also have a perfectionist, it's really hard, and I agree this is the thing that you should focus on.

I'd take it right away from books and learning though and find some other way of tackling it - basically you are looking at finding ways to start things off, even if you're not sure of the result.

Baking/cooking is good, but encourage experimentation - like, DS has 2/3 things he can cook now, but I'm always encouraging him to change - fancy a red pepper in the stir fry? How about sweetcorn? Climbing was also suggested to me as a good way of teaching children to physically start - you have to step off, you have to keep going.

Maybe as she's keen on maths you could encourage her to set up experiments, either with a kit or from her own imagination: what happens if we mix this with this, what happens if we do that?

It's basically trying to teach that life can be open-ended - it's OK not to know. I'd also review her drama and dance classes - for your dd in particular it's OK for her just to have fun. The teacher shouldn't be looking for progress or effort, in her case - imo. That's just 'feeding' the perfection myth, that there's a right and wrong way to perform/dance/sing - it's important for her to feel free.

Good luck!

This screams dyslexia to me, my dd can only write and spell words in phonics.

It's perfectly normal in a child of the OP's DD's age and not an indicator of dyslexia.

Sounds very similar to DS - down to personality traits and response to threats and taking stuff away.

Short term bribes work - read this and you can have something food or tv program or computer game.

DS did start to disengage with things partly as he was fiercely competitive but felt he couldn't even begin to compete. We've always made a point of praising effort but he still a bit of a perfectionist - he won't try if he feel he has no chance of competing with others.

Their school is good - best one in our area - but still some of the teaching practise I'm increasingly feeling aren't great and seem to particular affect my DC - main ones being how they teach reading.

With DS he needs practise - and a lot of it. In his case there were issues with reading and maths - both relating to not enough practise of the basics.

With reading we did sound foundations A1 and A2 - you could try book A and see if that helps. He gone from a DC never wanting or needing to read to a true book worm.

With my eldest - trying to avoid reading didn't start till yr 1 - her phenomenal memory got her though till that point. She had always know her phonics sounds - but the schools mixed method teaching encouraged guessing and she did have eye issues - so actually applying phonics across a entire line was very hard - eyes darted all over. She's a different personality so she'd want to read and then get very upset trying to do it - very upsetting to everyone.

It's also caused spelling problems as well - and she has proven to be self conscious about that though and translated into a reluctance to write again this occurred when older than your DD.

I was doing all the reading to them and having house full of exciting books but they still needed a bit more help. Actually with eldest we had to leave off getting her to read at home as it was just so counter productive.

Windingways - she isn't interested in reading anywhere, although she does like being read to.

She is positively angelic at school: well behaved, listens, plays nicely with other children (as long as they want to play HER games, otherwise she sulks) - she's always the first to be there with hugs for anyone whose upset or hurt themselves. At home she's a complete madam.

Cedar - I was very surprised that she never wanted to look for letters when she was very young. She was an early talker - first words at 7 months, sentences by the time she was 1, so I assumed she'd have an interest in letters and words, but there was none at all, and extreme resistance to anything along the lines of 'can you find a letter S'. I gave up so as not to start any kind of battle.

I gave her a Crystal Growing kit for Christmas in the hopes that this would encourage following written instructions as she apparently likes science stuff at school - she likes Lego kit instructions, but they have pictures not words - but she just gave up and told me to do it when I suggested that she read them out!

As I have massive problems with convergence despite having 20:10 vision, I asked the optician to specifically test for that and she had no problems that they could see. My father is an ophthalmologist so I might get him to have a look next time we see them to double check. SMIL is an audiologist and has checked hearing so I know that's fine.

We actually had a bit of success last night - I took some of the advice from here and found a copy of Hansel & Gretel in the bookcase that I reckoned was about the limit of what she could reasonably be expected to try: Ladybird 'Read It Yourself' Level 3 (not sure what that really means, but the vocab and sentence length looked reasonable).

I refused to let her look at any of the pictures in advance of each page so that she didn't know what was coming - and I don't think she knew the story from elsewhere. There was a lot of resistance to attempting, but once she got started, she got into the story and refused to stop until she'd read the whole book (45 pages). By the end she was recognising a few more of the words that cropped up a lot and was very excited about that (blimey - first time I have seen ANY enthusiasm in that direction).

I kept saying that we probably ought to put the book away till tomorrow as she'd read x pages and that was a great effort - she was totally insistent that we read the whole thing... she does like to be in control!

Will be interested to see if it's a one off, or whether the issue is that she's finding the stories boring a lot of the time. I'll look out another similar book for tonight and see. If it works then I might take a few to school and get the teachers to give her one of those for school-reading and see if that makes any change there. I'm also going to try the overlays.

Good to know that lots of children don't get the repetitive words straight away, I never did phonics so I have no idea how that works with their brains at all. I don't want to go down the dyslexia route for a while - I read somewhere that they don't like to diagnose before they're 7 or 8 - but I will keep it in mind.

I'm also aware that she's only 5 and plenty of bright children don't learn to read until they are ready to. It's more the lack of interest that worries me and also that because we do start formal learning early here - at an age when many children may not be quite ready - it is easy to get behind on everything.

Although she's not competitive and wouldn't care if she was on top table or bottom table if they have those, she does notice what other children are doing. She did come home before xmas very upset that her best friend (September birthday) had told her that she's not clever because she can't read and write as well as she can.

Thank you all for the advice - I'm going to try lots of things, and also try not to put any pressure on for 'success' but more encourage participation.

I think they key to realise it doesn't have to be stories aimed at that age group. It can by anything. I have one who loves owls and loves to wade through text books on owls. Another loves car magazines. And the third loves agricultural vehicles and loves nothing more than reading brochures for forage harvesters, or tractors.

What does she enjoy ? Could be a book on earwigs, fashion magazines, or space travel - anything at all. Find something relevant to that, and show her that reading is of value to her. Once she realises there is something in there she wants to know she will figure it out.

But don't put pressure on her (been there, done that - it was painful for everyone and counter productive). Leave the school books to school if she doesn't want to read them. Or you read them to her while she follows the words.

Of course it could be that she just wasn't in the right mood or place at school. Was she hungry? What was the rest of the class doing? Was it a windy day? Was it too noisy? Was it too quiet? Was the chair uncomfortable? Was it an odd situation to be with the teacher? Was she tired? Had she just had a disagreement with someone?

With the crystal growing kit - it can be fun/or boring - depending on the child. Presents like that I usually put aside until the child is bored/wants to do it. I would also read the instructions, and we'd work on it together. Cook books are good, especially of food the child likes.

Lots of going out and doing is good, there is too much inside time at school. Maybe take part in the RSPB big Birdwatch? Keep a nature diary together - what signs of spring can you spot. Talk lots!
The library is a good source of books that she might like without spending a fortune. (Never say that book is too hard, but do share reading - maybe she does 1 page and you do one, or you do more if its a tricky book.)

It's not the first time at school that she has been reluctant to read, that is every single time and the school and I have been discussing it since half-term last term. It is the first time she's said that she doesn't like learning though, and the teacher was also telling me about the action plan they have to try and tackle it this term rather than it being a one-off situation.

It was DD's choice to do the crystal growing kit - I had it put away, but having seen her pleading with DH for a science project I decided to give it to her as part of her xmas presents. She got it out and asked to do it with me and was very excited looking at all the bottles and trays and goggles etc.

As soon as I suggested that we read the instructions together there was silence. I even did the 'I'll read the first step and we'll do it, and you can read the next step'. As soon as it was her turn, she told me that either I did the reading or I could do the whole thing on my own!

Food is a bad route for us - DD has a growth hormone issue and the one she doesn't have is the one that controls appetite amongst other things. She is literally never hungry and it's very hard to interest her in food or cooking - she will only eat about 3 things. I've even tried buying Disney cupcake kits etc, but possibly because she has no interest in the end product, she has no interest in making the blooming cakes.

It's so frustrating and tedious - I nearly always end up doing the projects on my own while she wanders off and does drawing or plays with barbies! Makes it hard to motivate myself to suggest them as well, knowing that I will be the one doing them.

The ones who achieve highest in Infant and Primary school are not necessarily the high fliers later in life. I would let her play a lot. But do also talk to her a lot!

Try to give her access to books she is interested in - even if its about Barbie or the Fairy books.

Schools do not always get it right. One of my DDs came out of Primary school as very average - but in a normal comp is now online fore As and A*, and is going to be put in a talented group at Sixth form. Another was put off reading when her teacher insisted she couldn't read any more Fairy books in school - it has taken a lot of effort for me to get her to read again, and she'd still say she doesn't enjoy it.

Do try to find something your DD enjoys and does well at. And do subtley praise her for hard work - not being bright. And tell her about people who've done well despite not being great at school (Einstein and Richard Branson) as well as great female role models.

That's great that she wanted to read yesterday. Don't be surprised if she's not interested tonight! Their interest does fluctuate and remember that at 5 it can be just one more thing at the end of a tiring day at school.

It's easy to worry that they are going to fall behind or not progress quickly enough. But i think with reading it comes in fits and starts - so they struggle for what seems like ages with the blends and repeating words and also not recognising words that they knew yesterday. Then suddenly they have a success like your daughter had. This will probably be followed by more reluctance but eventually she will get there. I know at least one very bright girl who refused to read much in reception and year one. But she suddenly developed an interest.

I think small children can also sense when you really want them to do something and the contrary ones don't want to because they know you want them to. Combined with perfectionist tendencies and that may be why she has been reluctant.

Timing is another thing. Trying to do reading at the end of a school day is often useless - they are too tired. Try the same thing in the morning or at the weekend and it may be more successful.

One thing though - your description of her reaction to the crystal instructions sounds like she doubts her ability to do it, and so is actively avoiding it. So find ways to boost her confidence in her ability. Try making up stories where she decides the story and you write it down - and discuss with her how to write the words (even made up words) - ways to pick up the rules without realising it.

DS2 was a perfectionist (BTW he is also dyslexic). One thing we focussed on was pointing out every time we made a mistake. If I was reading and I made a mistake I would stop and say "I've read that wrong, I'll read it again.". The same with writing, if I misspelt something I would show DS2. The teachers in school did the same with him. We we all pushing the message that everyone makes mistakes and making mistakes is normal. It eventually sunk in, he is now Yr 3 and a lot less bothered about getting the odd thing wrong.