Before-school childcare, 7-9am?

[gourd]

How/where do you find before-school childcare?
DD (4 yrs) starts school in Sept 2015. After school club fine, but it’s not Ofsted registered so each child is only allowed 2 hours in total a day (i.e. DD cant use before school as well and the before school club is not open till an hour after we'd need care to start anyway). We need childcare 7-9am (2 hours, 4 days a week as I don't work Fridays) with drop-off at school. There is only one registered childminder in area who drops at the local school, who I’ve never met and couldn't contact in the summer when I tried to find replacement care as our wonderful CM ceased child-minding. DD went to daycare nursery rather than local school nursery in Sept 2014 due to CM stopping and no replacement CM in area.

Do private nurseries usually do a breakfast & school-drop service? Our daycare nursery does, but only to a school near the nursery (which is over 2 miles away from our home & our local school). The two daycare nurseries near our house/school did not have place & neither were open long enough hours so never explored whether or not they do school-drop-offs for Seopt 2015. We couldn’t afford a full-time nanny/babysitter as they are double the price of day-care nursery which we already struggle with but my main concern was that the ones I saw on-line didn’t seem to have many qualifications or much experience. They were mostly young, often teenage students wanting part time work to fund studying for childcare qualifications. Probably less of an issue if only wanting 2 hours a day before-school, but do any nannies actually do 2-hours a day, mornings only? Would this be an option and how much roughly does it cost for 2 hours a day and a 4-day-week? We use childcare vouchers but I dont think nannies take them, and the after-school club also doesn't either, so it is going to be expensive despite DD starting school.

I couldn’t actually find any nannies in our area on-line, so they would have to travel to us. I haven’t been able to contact the only other local CM on the number the council gave me and there isn’t another one registered in the area at the moment. I have tried a few internet sites including a local one our old CM recommended, plus the local council list of CMs and nurseries, but no luck so far. Where should I be looking?

Gosh, there's nowt queer as folk!

I'm another in favour of requesting your hours to be spread over 5 days.

School is knackering in reception. It's not the day but they go from individual attention to struggling in a class of 30. It's emotionally exhausting for them

DS now in year 1 and more robust. I too am freelance but try to arrange my hours so they don't need before school care.

7am is very early for school age child. If you have to do it to keep a particular position, career path, then I think you need to suck it up and pay for a nanny to come to the house.

We also struggle for family mealtimes in the week. My boys are ravenous by 5 so I feed them earlier and eat with DH later at least 3 nights a week.

My 11 yr old finds it tiring to be out the door at 7.30am let alone a 4 year old, poor thing.

You seem to have ruled out one of you going to work later (eg after an 8am drop-off) and returning later (sharing this), mentioning concern about no family meal times in the week and commuting home at 7pm, but that kind of arrangement is the norm with two working parents in commuterville! Better for DC than very early starts or lots of settings IMO.

Yy Surrey.

OP, if you can do the shifted hours, you can still chat to Dd in mornings or evenings and help with reading. Then fri/sat/sun you can have fanily meals.

Gourd are you certain you will get a place at this school?
While it is worth looking into childcare options, what will happen if you don't get first choice, and are given a place at a different school? Don't commit to anything just yet, would be my advice.

It looks like you both commute for over an hour each way, each day. Is that typical for your area? DH and I manage things by DH starting early, and much shorter commutes than you are both doing. If you could find the childcare, could you do 3 long days, and then have 2 days off where you can drop off and collect from school?

To those of you saying you'd struggle to get your child out of the house early, I think it depends on the child. DS1 is itching to be doing something by 7am. (he wakes 5.10-5.30 almost without fail, and has done so for 5 years). The park nearest us opens at 7am. The park keeper recognises me from the number of times we were there before nursery opens at 7.30am. So early starts aren't out for everyone (Yawn). And, no he didn't sleep later when he started at school.

Good grief addictedtosugar, that must be difficult. My 4yo usually has to be woken for school. In winter, when we leave for breakfast club at 7.55am, it is pitch black and feels like the middle of the night. She is on her last legs at the moment, very weepy.

Shorter commutes are the key to managing children at school. DP and I drive 20 minutes each, it makes all the difference, especially the two times she's been ill in school already and one of us has had to get her.

I get the family meal/ reading thing but honestly, you need to give it some serious thought.

I can only speak for my child, and don't know about yours, however, I would say that you need to think about their need and wants not yours.

In reception particularly, they are grumpy, emotional and needy. Those family meal times are not going to be fun and you could all end up resenting them. Far better to have a morning, you can have a lovely chatty breakfast with her before dropping her off at school/breakfast club, while your DH does the same at teatime with some beans on toast. As she gets older she will be able to stay up later.

Homework/reading can be done in the mornings and at weekends if necessary.

28 hours over 5 days would be 9 to 4:30 which, even with an hour each end would be more than acceptable.

"Shorter commutes are the key to managing children at school."

They are one way. DH and I have long commutes but we alternate.

Even if school sorts the OFSTED thing, I don't think they will start early enough. Many don't start until 8am, earliest round here is 7:45am.

Another option if you have space in your house could be an au pair?

I think you also need to take a few other things into consideration. How are you going to cover school holidays? We have a holiday club in the next village but it only runs for a few weeks of the summer holidays. And it only runs from 8 til 5.30. Also, do you realise that many schools stagger the start of reception? So your dd may not start until a few weeks after the start of term? Some schools do only mornings for the first half term. You need to have a big think and it's good that you are doing it now.

Our school didn't have a breakfast club when cd started but due to demand, they set one up. It only opens at 7.30 but worth speaking to the school about.

Best of luck

Although some schools stagger the start of reception, it is your right to ask for a full time place from day 1.

I changed my hours to do 25 over 5 days when DD was in infants.

Now in juniors she has a longer day due to clubs after school so I do same hours over 4 days which I prefer but 5 day option worked well for DDstarting school.

One thing that jumped out to me is you are both over an hour away. What are you going to do when you get the call to pick up sick DD - they tend to leave them sat in the corridor near reception with a sick bucket and expect you to come asap.

A local childminder or nanny may provide that sort of back up too.

What are your holiday plans. I usually end up working 5 days in the hols as childcare is often 9-3 only.

Two girls I know of at DD's school have nannys. One does drop offs only (she is a retired lady) Other does drop off and pick up including taking child to swimming, gym etc. I know she used to be a full time nanny but this arrangement means she can care for her own children in the day. AFAIK both were found through word of mouth.

If a child is sick, a CM is unlikely to pick up. DH and I have always worked over an hour away from schools/childcare - we managed.

Have your family mealtimes at weekends and change your hours (i.e. as a family). You say your dh works 8-4: can he make a flexible working request and work 10-6 for example?

I work three days with breakfast/after school club on those days. The dds are doing 8.15 to 5 in a setting and it's full-on. We are all very much looking forward to a break at Christmas.

you are going to have to try hard on this one! maybe a local mum. or au pair. or one/both of you changes your hours

I think you're going to need to look at your working hours. 7am is earlier than most providers cover. Our early breakfast club is 7.30 and I don't know anyone in our area who needs earlier than that. Even if the school club side of things is sorted, you may well be the only people who need a 7am start, and they're not going to open early for one child. the 7.30 to 8 period is an extra £5 on top of the normal before-club cost, so it would be £17 per day for 7am to 5pm in our setting.

My two were doing have done 8-6 at school and nursery 4 or 5 days a week until very recently - we're now down to 3 days - and they're always knackered. DS1 was exhausted during reception - conking out in the car on the way home every night and going to bed at about 6.30. Evenings were a write-off anyway.

Besides, if your child is in after-school care until 5, they'll probably be fed anyway, so family dinners will be scuppered anyway.

Working/childcare arrangements are always tricky. Unless you have a lot of family support, compromises need to be made. I think you just need to make those compromises at the end of the day, rather than the beginning.

That's a good point, kungfupanda, our ASC does "snacks" but as the kids are allowed as much as they want and the snacks are things like wraps and pasta salads, they often only need a bit of tea later on.

I think it's unlikely you will find anyone to do that tbh.

But all this reception tiredness it depends on the child, my dd was absolutely fine and I didn't see it. Maybe it's personality, she's very confident and independent so maybe just didn't find it emotionally a strain?

Another "4yr old far more tired by school than nursery" here.

Few downsides to plan:

• after school club will have fed so not up for family dinner @7pm
• DD will be shattered so not up to family dinner
• they get homework/reading each evening - it's a huge struggle for me to get concentration at 7pm after a ~5.15pm pickup with some solo chill out time inbetween

A few people have expressed surprise that we havent thought about childcare before - I'm not sure how far back we should have been thinking about it - I certaoinly thought about it before we decided to have a baby, and ofud out the cost and what was available etc, uding pregnancy I contacted the council for the list of childminders (before DD was even born) and checked Ofsted reports etc to shortlist the CMs before contacting them to visit as soon as DD was born. Have been trying to sort childcare out ever since. I dont think there is any day that i dont think about it. We only have one child for several reasons but one of them is lack of time with the one we've got (people have expressed suproise that we wnat to see each other in teh week but I;m afraid I cant see the pojnt in a fmaily if you dont spend any time with them), the cost of childcare/no grandparents to help out and the logistacal nightmare of getting to work/dropping of at childcare/time spent commuting/collecting child. Making the choice between DD sitting in the car stuck in traffic for half an hour travelling home from nursery 3 miles away, vs playing at CMs accross the road from our house then a 5 minute walk home etc. We had a great CM in place until August when she had to give up with no notice, so obviously we were then back to square one again.

If she is in a position to accept cash in hand to care for our DD then we will do that but don't want to pressure her as she may not be able to do it and we wont know until February or possibly May which is then rather late to start looking IMO though everyone we know keeps telling us it will sort itself out, no need to worry it's too early to look as CMs wont know if they have a place for Sept 2015 at this stage etc etc - but this isnt the message I'm getting on this thread so I think I will keep worrying!

We dont know anyone else in the area with both parents working. Most of the kids who go to the school have only one or neither parent in work. The school have told us this. The oftsed report also mentions the socio economic background of the children so I dont think there is much demand of wrap around childcare at the school. The school is the nearest one to us and is almost opposite our house so it seems unlikely that we wouldn't get a place there if it is true that places are allocated based on distance. DDs friends from daycare nursery will go to their local school which is also very good, but is 3 miles away from us as crow flies (further on roads) so she wont get a place as far as I can tell. I have put it on the form anyway, but would have thought it's a slim chance as there are 3 other schools closer to us than that one. Our other old CM lives 3 miles away and does not drive so cannot help even though she needs to fll her vacancies.

The 5 day week thing would work though it will certainly not be easy and will impact on family life and weekends.

I have been looking for a job in home town, but haven't seen anything to apply for yet. Work in higher ed admin and use specialist systems, rather than standard MS databases etc so I dont have the skills or experience to do anything else. It is a good job but very hard to transfer skills to work anywhere else except for other higher ed institutions, and our local town doesnt have one - only 6th form colleges and schools which pay less well, have term time only contracts, use different systems anyway (often use standard MS programmes) and employ literally a fraction of the staff, 1000s fewer, so chance of finding work there is a lot smaller.

RCheshire - we eat at 5:30 or 6 and DD gets ready for bed at 7 but we might be up earlier (at 6)..

Recption class start school along with the other years, the first week in Sept. There's no meal at the after school club, only at breakfast club, although some kids take a snack to eat after school. DD would of course also be with her friends at the school club so I understand why she says she wants to go. I dont mind whether she's at CMs or school and a mixture of the two would also be fine if there's a particular club she wants to go to. They do street dance, football, cookery, homework/reading club and ITC as well as special events (flim night etc). I think will just have to see with that whether she is in fact too knackered to do it, or not. the idal would still be old CMa sh e lives 2 mins away from school and would pick up from the after school club if DD wnated to stay for an hour. It is a disaster that we have lost her. There is no guarentee ever that your chosen childcare will not suddenly stop anyway. I cant guarentee that a CM or the after school clubwill be available at all times even if we choose one or the other. Only type of provider who would be more stable is a nursery but I cant find any at all who do before/after school care (only holiday clubs) as they cant provide the nursery staff cover to drop/collect. Many nurseries dont own a vehicle either (ours doesnt) so they could only offer that service within child-walking distance even if they could provide the staff cover.

Dixie chick - Yes I still have contact with both our old CMs so they pass on any info they have on who is avalable in area. It is not out of the question that we cant have an informal arrangement with our old CM (she is literally accros the road from us and also 2 mins from school) but we dont know for sure, and I want to know the other options now in case that option isnt available. I seem to be more affected by this upheaval than DD. After the inital grump about not going to school nursery she doesnt seem to care at all and is having the time of her life at daycare. I suspect that she will be fine with starting any new setting too as she doesn't seem to worry like we do. We worry about any kind of change thinking she will find it hard or upsetting and so far she hasn't. She was fine with change from one CM to another and then with sudden change to daycare. Of course she says she misses the CMs but we stay in touch and she is happy to see them when we occasionally visit. We were told at parents evening that she is the most confident child in pre-school, so dont think confidence in new setting or being unhappy there will be an issue, but tiredness/grumpyness after a school day could be. She will be older though so its hard to know. DD will be 5 a week after she starts school.

this is a standard problem - wrap around care is harder to sort than all day nursery and it is a difficult few years from 5-8 (when ofsted regs are more relaxed?) and then 8-11
most parents without family help have to compromise (eg work 'shift' hours so alternate early and late starts) or solve the problem with money (nanny/au pair)
networking from now til sept might find you a local/two local parents willing to do this or the cm across the road could be ideal. care in your house not hers might get round the non ofsted registration but you are then responsible for any tax etc as an employer
it just is hard and you will probably have to compromise somewhere

btw ever thought about a school near your work? one family i know did that