Primaries with little or no whole-class music lessons at ks2

[teachingmusicquestion]

I've just seen it suggested that there are some LEAs in which as many as 40% of schools do not make adequate provision for classroom music (I don't mean peripatetic lessons). I'm in music ed and interested in improving it.

I wondered if any teachers or parents know of such a school.

If these schools are out there, I suppose what I'm wondering is how music education has failed so many schools so badly that heads don't consider it worth while spending time on it (even though it is an obligatory statutory subject).

I appreciate that schools are only tested on a narrow range of subjects but that doesn't, for me, explain a head finding a subject so useless as to disregard it.

There are plenty of good resources for 'non specialist' music teachers for EYFS, KS1 and KS2 available. The SingUp initiative and website has a huge amount of singing material related to each and every topic and key stage which could easily be incorporated into lessons (not the same as actually 'teaching music' but at least showing it can be integrated)
Most boroughs have very good music services whereby peripatetic teachers can be used to either give instrumental lessons, or involve children in borough-wide projects at very little cost.
Although often the way in to primary music teaching is as another poster suggested above, Kingston University has a specialist Primary Music teaching qualification (this is the only one I know of, though) and there are also teaching courses that musicians can take through ABRSM and other providers.
Primary is the place for a broad and balanced education and without music, RE, dance, drama, sport, food tech, ICT, maths, English, science, MFLs etc... then we are failing our children. Creative use of teaching time does enable all to be included at different levels. Good teachers can facilitate interesting lessons, even if they feel they have minimal skills themselves in a particular subject knowledge.

Are you a primary teacher ohtobeanonymus ? I'd love to know how your "creative use of teaching time" allows for all those subjects in the depth that is required without sacrificing English and Maths time, especially in a school under the microscope of the LA and OFSTED due to standards in those subjects (think minimum of 7 sublevels per key stage when under the old system).

Am learning sooo much ....

So, ALL the "secondary" subjects are squeezed both by the pressure to do so much maths and English in a particular (to put it neutrally) way.

PLUS somehow music has ended up seeming hard to do, hard to teach, even compared to art and PE....

Agree re Singup being the resource to go for by the way.

"Of the years I spent doing supply teaching and PPA cover in various primaries (not working at the moment since having my own kids) I could pretty much guarantee an afternoon supply cover slot would involve the timetable having been rearranged to land music on me and get out of teaching it themselves that week. The other usual suspects that mysteriously got rearranged (for the usual timetable was up on the classroom wall) were D+T, Art and RE was quite a common one as well."

I was going to say " how shocking but then I imagine myself teaching art without some skilled help.....

I have never yet met a child who is not musical....by maybe there are years, if not generations, of damage to undo before everyone is comfortable with the idea of music as something they do.

Pretty much, ontosecondary - add the financial squeeze on teacher resources, instruments, singup subscription, staff INSET, etc. and you're about there.

Right, having identified theproblems, I wonder what the solutions are?

Music instructors will have almost no influence on the "just English and Maths" problem. Nor on the financial squeeze.
So maybe I need to focus on the "music as hard" problem.....

Does that sound about right?

I'm a former professional singer, and now a primary school teacher. I lead the choir, but am not the music co-ordinator. Music is co-ordinated by another teacher who has very little experience or knowledge of music. We have a specialist who comes in to teach music to KS1 and 2 as part of our PPA cover.

I've talked to colleagues about it, and although many of them like music, and love singing, they are nervous about the other aspects of teaching music - the terminology, the composition, the instruments etc.

I think that teaching music is very "exposing". I love singing with my class, but one of my colleagues would rather take off all her clothes and dance around the classroom naked than have to sing alone to teach a song. I firmly believe that everyone CAN sing, but it takes confidence in your own abilities, and that is what's sadly lacking in so many teachers as they weren't given enough music teaching when they were at school.

It's one area that many teachers feel should be taught by a specialist.

Hmm, yes, the nakedness thing.
Might that actually be as big an issue as music being "hard"?

Yet more to think about, this is an awesome thread.

(. . . part 3)

When I was twenty, I had professional drum lessons, hoping to turn professional, but never got good enough. However, for forty years played in many different situations: pubs, clubs, old time music hall, student big bands.

Moved to Devon, in local pantomime group for ten years, plus standard Musicals - South Pacific, Guys & Dolls, Annie, Oliver etc. Became a TA, had simple recorder group from Yr2 upwards; some years kids were keen enough do read a few 'dots', other years they just learnt by memory. We did London's Burning as a 'round', and at a performance for parents, Head surprised me, splitting parents into groups to join in and sing with us in the 'round'. Coached children on percussion to accompany Christmas production; had a percussion club for a while.

So although children weren't learning much 'formal' music, they were getting a taste of playing, enjoying it, and seeing audiences enjoy it.

Now retired, I answer a lot of MN queries on music. Schools often have volunteers in to support sports, gardening, the PTA etc, so more could encourage a musical parent or visitor to give children a 'taste' of music.

MN parents are not your 'average' parent I always claim; music to them means Grades, if it is to have any value. For four years I did a few hours at weekends, working with 'deprived' children, via the local council, taking them to the woods, the park, or the beach; things that normally parents would do, except many of these parents weren't up to it.

Most secondary schools now have music 'tech' facilities (I think) and the internet has many music-tuition sites, some free (to start with, at least). So, in theory there should be ample scope to 'spread the message'. As you probably know, Nicola Benedetti has done a lot in that way, and currently James Rhodes has his campaign. (I just find it a shame he has to look so scruffy.) An experiment at a primary school, revealed what you and I would expect, that learning an instrument CAN boost concentration and academic performance:

www.dontstopthemusic.co.uk/latest/campaign/lords-debate-music-education

Recently a MN parent asked for opinions on "Dogs and Birds" music; I looked it up, and was horrified by it - seems like expensive rubbish to me; it just perpetuates the myth that conventional notation is beyond the reach of ordinary mortals!

Our DS was 'playing' on our Yamaha organ at a few months old (we held him on the bench). I put letter stickers on the pedals, and aged two he would sit the floor to press the appropriate pedal as I called it out, while I played the manuals. At five he was starting to read music, and went on to do music in GCSE and A levels. He plays alto sax, got Grade 8 Distinction. I believe because he had the opportunity and experiences from a very early age, he could continue to progress.

My PGCE was in music (with RE) and I spent the first few years of my career teaching in secondary schools though I have retrained and now teach primary. I do understand the need for high quality music (and RE, French, computing...) teaching and we probably do lots more than many other schools. I just need someone to make my afternoons a bit longer!

Believe me, I was full of good intentions.

"Our DS was 'playing' on our Yamaha organ at a few months old (we held him on the bench). I put letter stickers on the pedals, and aged two he would sit the floor to press the appropriate pedal as I called it out, while I played the manuals. At five he was starting to read music, and went on to do music in GCSE and A levels. He plays alto sax, got Grade 8 Distinction. I believe because he had the opportunity and experiences from a very early age, he could continue to progress."

True, but is it helpful to think about this? Other parents were introducing their kids to football/chess/karate/horseriding and there's nothing inherently superior about music, as I'm sure you'd agree.

Re notation, of course it can be taught, but skilled thinkers have pointed out that it's an illogical and highly limited way of representing music and that music can and should be taught independently of it as well as using it. So far so good. But that then plays into the hands of the music-as-status-symbol brigade who pounce on this as evidence of "dumbing down."

This has been my experience of primary: DS1's class had recorder in Y3 taken by a teacher at school and whole class percussion in Y4 provided by local music service. He then joined the junior percussion group and never looked back! He had peri lessons at school in drums and flute and still plays. fast forward to DS2, three years younger. About half a term on recorder and no whole class instrumental. The difference is that the funding went. The local music service is now a hub and still offers it but I think only the largest primaries can afford it. Instead there is a big emphasis on singing, provided by school teacher and many children have instrumental lessons with peri teachers.
To enable all children in primary to access instruments and tuition, you need funding, specialist teachers and above all you need protected time in the curriculum just as PE has. PE is a good comparison because I suspect without the curriculum requirement some schools would do less than 2 hours a week!

AsBrightAsAJewel, yes I am a primary teacher - how did you guess?! But in an independent school, so not quite as limited by the madness of LA and OfSted and limitations of 'literacy' and 'numeracy' hour or whatever the latest decree is for teaching time...

Am not a teacher but a parent that thinks music is essential in the curriculum and can enrich education for every child.

If I had my way all primary children would learn Kodaly method or similar.

DCs school supposedly does 'music and movement' in KS1 but has had no one to teach of late so they haven't done it. I believe there is singing -it appears to be to the accompaniment of the interactive white board rather than any sort of real instrument

There's some 1-2-1 keyboard instruction in KS2- just for G&T children.

I pay for private out of school music tuition for the DCs and it is worth every penny.

Just an aside, Ernest Read was Director of a Music at my DDs former school! Their Music Building is named after him.

The lack of actual teaching of singing, versus just letting children sing along with a recorded track, makes me very sad, but then singing is my main instrument.

Singing is so very beneficial for children and really supports the learning of phonics at Nursery and Reception due to the listening skills required.

The trouble is that once again, very few teachers have been taught how to teach singing, and lack the knowledge about basic techniques.

I agree wholeheartedly, Littlefish.

To be able to sing is a wonderful skill and, what's more, singing is much cheaper and easier to deliver than an instrument, and much cheaper and easier to access throughout life. I'm a great believer in choosing what to teach DC with an eye to what is cost-effective for the many.

Radio 4 recently did a programme on "Singing Together." That appeared to generate a huge amount of nostalgia from people who remembered learning to sing at school using that programme. It's such a shame that so many primary teachers seem to think music (even when limited to singing) is difficult to teach. Given that there is a growing issue with the speaking and listening skills of many children when they start primary school, and music develops all sorts of skills useful for developing listening, a sense of rhythm (useful in English), pitch, concentration, working together, etc, it seems a lost opportunity that apparently very little thought has gone into whether music could have any role to play in helping, there. I'm sure if teachingmusicquestion can show teachers the link between music and the development of skills that are useful for English and maths, she will find it easier to convince teachers of the value of ensuring it has time in the curriculum?!

"I'm sure if teachingmusicquestion can show teachers the link between music and the development of skills that are useful for English and maths, she will find it easier to convince teachers of the value of ensuring it has time in the curriculum?!"

I think lots of people have tried....

The trouble is, music is so broad - all of pattern recognition in sound through time. So my own practice is good for making up lyrics, for instance, that rhyme and scan and have interesting vocabulary. But other people might do their music differently and therefore touch more on other aspects of the curriculum.

I know that the correlation with mathematical ability is pretty overwhelming, but other than saying that both are about pattern manipulation/recognition, I can't honestly say that I could even hypothesise how music helps maths. And there are many traps to fall into and false friends (hands up if someone taught you that time signatures are fractions, etc,etc.)

I'm a capable musician and quite enjoy teaching music but to be quite honest, I just don't have the time to teach it as well as I'd like.

It's not a subject that anyone cares about at the moment; heads want maths/literacy/phonics standards simultaneously raised. Teachers' ability to pay their mortgage is solely down to the PMR targets linked to those subjects. Book scrutinies look at those subjects and how well literacy targets are met in cross-curricular writing on geography/history and science. Nothing else is very important at the moment. Unless you change that-I don't think the profile of music within schools will change anytime soon.

I'm a primary school teacher and parent of primary school aged children. I would also describe myself as fairly musical (have A-level music, grade 8 in one instrument, play a couple of others to a decent standard, sing in choirs - often solo parts) and yet the actual teaching of the primary music curriculum is something I feel I haven't fully got to grips with during the 12 or so years I've been teaching.

It's not that I'm not willing/able (although my ability to do marvellous things with lots of children and percussion instruments at the same time is limited) but that in some schools I've taught in, there has been a decent music programme e.g. amazingly musical and passionate-about-music headteacher who dedicated a couple of hours a week to teaching singing to the whole school, a couple of year groups at a time for 30 mins per week (even when Ofsted came in) coupled with LA whole-class teaching of recorder in Y2 then Samba in Y4. Small group recorder lessons were then available from Y3+, woodwind and brass Y4+, fantastic choir (run by the headteacher) and an orchestra. I didn't have to teach the music curriculum because it was being covered by the headteacher/Samba teacher. Sadly, once the school was spoiled by the LA's bullish intervention (the headteacher is now spreading her musical wonderfulness elsewhere), the music education on offer deteriorated too.

I no longer teach there but continue to have close links with the school. There is now no whole class teaching of music. Singing happens each week but it's more 'song practice' than the singing lessons it used to be. The once brilliant KS2 choir no longer sings in harmony and peripatetic teachers are forced to have larger groups (and of greater ability spreads e.g. grade 4 in with beginners for one of the brass instruments). A couple of teachers try to teach music to their classes but it's an up-hill battle as the support from SLT just isn't there although they claim to love music. These days, the school doesn't even make mention of children who've taken music exams through the school, won scholarships to places like the Trinity Laban conservatoire or gained music scholarships to local secondary schools.

So yes, I do know of schools where whole class music isn't happening - IME it's one of the first casualties of hostile takeovers/federations who will claim that their teachers are delivering it instead/that the budget is better used on X, Y or Z. I also know of schools within a couple of miles (same LA) where music is something every child has an opportunity to participate in and be brilliant at.

It's such a shame. I never realised how much I was taking for granted when I was at primary school.

SE13Mummy - that is a true horror story and I am horrified to think that is the state of things in 40% of schools.

Just exactly what does the government think it is doing when decimating the quality and breadth of education in this way. I am ever more thankful that is not the case in my school or my children's school.

very interesting.

In private schools music is also a "first casualty" in that teachers will be presented with paycuts. But it is still presented to parents as core so there is only so much they can cut it.

That comes at a price though: there is huge emphasis on music-as-status-symbol with ABRSM exams aplenty, which keeps our music education methods nad materials stuck somewhere in the 1920s so far as I can work out.