Can someone give any primary school choice advice- and preferably knock some sense into me?!

[DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep]

I need to apply for my PFB eldest's school place. We have 3 choices and I'm really struggling to weigh up the pros and cons. DD has twin brothers 1 school year behind her so I really feel like I'm choosing for all 3.

school 1: our local village school. The only one in walking distance. 1 form entry and takes 35. Split up into mixed year groups for key stage 1 (though all together for music and PE). It has form for letting more in on appeal- has taken up to 39 in one class. They are then all together for key stage 2. It's a church school with an outstanding ofsted. lots of reward systems in place that im.not sure i like. Our concerns are class size especially as dt1 hates big and busy and that should it be a big year for DD (and there's 41 in the village preschool which feeds into it for school next year) and she struggles we won't be able to move into a smaller school as with the dts we'd be looking for 3 spaces in the same class.

school 2: smaller school in the next village over. 2 miles away but along winding single track country roads so not child-biking suitable I don't think. Takes 15. only 15 in reception then mixed year teaching from there in so a standard class of 30. Gets an ofsted good, has a newish head who seems great, not a religious school. They also do some forest school stuff but kind of as and when. Buses children to and from a bigger village school so does offer before and after school care. my concern is would it push them academically if they were bright, especially the older children of the mixed year class? it was pulled up in its ofsted for that- with the previous head though.

school 3: furthest away- 6.5 miles. but under subscribed so we would get in. They take up to 14 but never normally have more than 11 at the most. Reception alone then mixed year teaching . Well set up forest school programme, seems lovely, ofsted outstanding and they say there's nowhere they could improve. My concern is the distance there and no local friends.

So I can't weigh up in my mind which is most important; being able to walk to school? local friends? smaller classes? more academic? more fun and outdoors based?

seriously driving myself bonkers!

Even small schools with a shared head are very expensive to run and if school 3 and the smaller one it shares a head with were to merge it would still be a smaller than average school. What if the school moved to the other site? How far is that one away?

Remember as well that you will be doing the journey to school and back (maybe several times a day once all three are there and they are all doing different after school clubs/visiting friends) in bad weather. Think about what the roads will be like - single track roads are no fun in the snow and ice and rarely get cleared.

You also mention that you're worried about mixed class teaching at school 2, that will certainly happen in school 3 too as it's smaller. Before and after school care is a big plus point with school 2 and certainly helpful if you work. Do they offer that at school 1?

With 3 kids I would go for the local one otherwise they will not get to go to peoples houses and its harder to have friends back due to lack of space in car. Once you have 3 at school doing clubs 3 different nights plus outside school stuff the driving will become a pain.

Driving with 2 sick kids to take the other to school will be awful. Going to the local school will mean more chance you could get someone to pick up the school child on the way past. The same with after school clubs. As they get bigger they will be able to walk on their own.

IME children went to play on their own from reception age - and certainly in your case where you would be taking an extra 2 DC with you (if I was the inviting mum I would certainly prefer to just have your DD than you and 2 younger twin boys as well - no offence!)

When you have 3 DC at school and are having to take them and their friends home - and/or go to pick them up from friends houses, that drive will seem an awful lot longer than it does now!! Unless there is something wrong with the local primary I would go with that. I can only see the class size as your potential drawback for the school. I think it's way too early to say that your younger child doesn't like "big and busy" - what kind of environment are you referring to? Bigger classes don't need to seem chaotic if they are well managed and you're talking many years away anyway. Also I'm sure they can't have a class with only one teacher and 39 students.

However, I am quite laid back about primary school. My DD started in an outstanding ofsted that everyone raved about but we moved and she is doing equally well in a more chaotic and less well-performing school. The one she is in now is MASSIVE (different country) and it makes not a jot of difference! Secondary is of far greater concern to me - if I were you I would be checking the local secondaries (or private if relevant) and making sure I was in the right location for that level, then attending the most convenient local primary.

My dc go to a school exactly as you describe in 1. It has worked incredibly well. You can walk there, whatever the weather, and if one is sick it's not such a logistical issue. The weather isn't a problem either. Snow, iced windows, frost, forgetting stuff:) v easy to deal with and fit round.

The teaching is great and all works very well, and pastoral care is great too. No experience of bigger schools but had concerns re class size as so small, but dc do plenty of afterschool activities elsewhere, and enjoy their day of learning.

Thanks all. You've really made me think.

I'd kind of decided on school 2 but now thinking of the driving and as you say, when they're all there and all have separate friends... could be a total nightmare. Yikes.

The things I don't like about school 1 are the church aspect (as we don't go to church) and I believe it is on the more churchy side if that makes sense, class sizes and the amount of reward based incentives. I know there have been troublesome classes there which have been difficult to manage as there are a lot of children.

School 2 has a very friendly atmosphere and is less reward driven which I prefer. BUT the big disadvantage (which I'm now seeing more ) is its not our village.
This has been really useful, appreciate all the comments.

I really like the sound of number 3. Forest school, small classes etc. is it about 15 mins each way in the car though?

2 miles is nothing though. There's something really nice about living slightly removed

School 1 sounds awful class size wise.

I would start with school 1 for the reasons others have outlined. We live in a village with no school & DS although invited to parties etc missed out on the casual play opportunities. I used to drive him to the swings/field there and sit reading the paper in the car so he could join in random football because friends could not just come and knock for him.

School 3 is way too small. Your three would make up what percentage of the youngest class?

If you are confident the school would manage the big classes in KS2 well then I would go for school 1 because it is invaluable to be able to walk to school and be part of a local school community.

I have though taught a yr 3 class of 36 and as the teacher it was not an easy job and the children didn't get the time from me they should have done. But it was done as a very last minute thing in my school and not planned well. If the school always have the classes like that then they should be managing it well and have plenty of adult support in place.

The 2nd school does sound good too but the logistics will quickly become hard work.

With regard to the churchy aspect, I always think that your influence as a parent will outweigh the school. As long as you can be supportive and fair to the school and its ethos (and Christian values are not bad things to be taught) then you don't need to believe yourself. You are free to tell your DC what you do or don't believe, or have different discussions around the subject.

The rewards-based thing might trouble me, I admit, as I'm not in favour either, but I'd accept it as the compromise for keeping everyone local and easy to manage logistically. (And I might try to get the school to reconsider it's methods, but then I am not bothered about being THAT parent when something strikes me as ill-considered or poor practice! )

So forgetting ofsted what did you think when you looked round them all. Which had the best feel which did you feel most comfortable with? I've been in some schools and just thought oh no not for me and others you just get a good feel from. Which head spent time answering your questions and whih didn't. They would be my criteria for deciding.

What's wrong with a reward based system ?? Genuinely pretty impressed that you know how they manage behaviour before your dc start there (and/or care!!!)

I suppose neither of my school age dc have any behaviour issues so I don't have any particular interest in how the school manage it and leave it up to them!

If you are so ethically opposed to 2 key issues like religion and behaviour management you probably need to stick with your other choice. As someone who doesn't care about those things (in the school environment as I see home as a more important influence at that age) it would be hard for me to say how important they are

I like small(ish) schools but one of my dcs has been in an intake of 11 and it is just too small imho. It's such a lottery socially.

Have you been to look round? I'd go and look at the local school and ask the head lots of questions. And I wouldn't worry too much about the religious aspect - my dcs all went to pretty churchy schools until last summer and are all staunchly skeptical about all things religious

Have you been to the open days? It's the feel of the place. And ask the teacher if she enjoys her job or is looking elsewhere!

Take the kids to look round. My ds hated a school we looked at that was perfect on paper.

Ask to look at the parent newsletters, and if it's v churchy, find out if the vicar comes in much to talk to the children.

I misread your op:) my dc school is v small so I thought you meant 35 in whole school:) so I am more option 3:) they and I like the small classes, they get taught v well and forest school etc.

Kids live all over, and play dates tricky anyway with working parents.

Agree not to worry too much about the churchy aspect. Dc's school have 'close ties' with the local church and have end of term celebrations there, but ds1 knows his own mind and tells everyone he's an atheist and we have to tell him he still needs to respect other people's choices. Unless you are going to Steiner or something radical, all schools will have reward systems - zone boards, stickers, marble jars. I was very sceptical at first but it does work and you can still do something different at home, the dc understand they don't get stickers at home except the Fair Trade ones from the bananas

In the words of the great Columbo, just one more thing...

I had the choice of 2 smaller than average schools in my small town, one C or E, one community. I'm not religious so they went to the community one. The vicar still comes in a few times a term to do assemblies and other things so just because it isn't a church school it doesn't mean there won't be that influence there.

Sorry OP more food for thought. I'd be with your initial instincts on school 2. It's not that far (2 miles? I drive 11 every day- 15 is too far in my experience of one term). Once you're in the car and used to doing it that way it'll be easier- carrying the multitude of bags, extra coats, etc for tired dc when picking up. Plus cajoling 3 to walk to school when one of them is having a difficult day- that would be enough to drive me to school 2.

On friendships there are others from your village in the school as you have mentioned- so not a problem.

In terms of the concerns ofsted have raised it will be part of the school improvement plan to address this. IME new head, and non outstanding ofsted means someone is going to improve the school. I would be inclined to choose a school with potential on the way to being great rather than already brilliant- it means during the 8 years your DC are there it will be improving all the time.

I was also struck by what you said about not liking the rewards systems used in the school 1 and the class sizes for your Dc1. I would shy away from it for that reason- whilst you are picking a school for all 3 by effect. You are still choosing the one which will suit your eldest first and foremost.

Good luck -and to be honest I found this the hardest parenting decision so far. Trust your instincts

For me I would have to be in total agreement of discipline methods, reward methods and ethos to feel comfortable having my child at the school. Obviously the easiest option would be the closest school but that doesn't mean it's the right school.

re churchy thing - ours go to a completely not religious school. No church ties at all.

but the 3 local churches come in, they takes turns to take assembly on a wednesday. The school is invited to services in the Cof E church at Harvest, Christmas, Easter etc.

So, church or not, you will probably get it.

Oh shite. Now I'm really confused. Yes, the religious aspect I can live with I guess even though I do know the head is really quite religious. She seemed fine talking to her but from a friend who has children of her friend there and a mum I see at toddler group she can be very rigid and doesn't help much with 'outside the box' problems (one was a very distressed 8 year old mid parental divorce, wetting at school- mum felt school 1 handled it with no empathy for him at all and no support really. He got councelling in the end) . The other mum who I know from toddlers moved her daughter from a class of 39 (!!) which was very badly managed. Another mum of 4 moved her dc3 from this same class. The big classes seem to be recent years so not sure how well they are managed...

I do get.that all schools have some rewards but school 1 seems to have about 7 per week. But with 37 odd children per class each child rarely gets one and as I've heard it's the ones who aren't interested then try that do whereas if you try hard all the time (as I think my dd will) you seem to be left to it.

BUT I'm more worried about the social aspects now. my dd is 18 months older than the dts but they are so close she's not part of their little twosome. yesterday I heard dt2 say "you my best friend " to dt1. DD heard too as said "can I be your best friend too?" and both boys insisted no, they were best friends and she could be friends with me. I feel a bit guilty as I'm sure she'd be closer to her brothers if they hadn't come as as twosome. I worry about going down to the village playground, the boys going off to play and DD not knowing the children her age and being left put and feeling excluded. Argh! I have most misgivings about school 1 though

Ring the schools and ask to revisit them all.

I have a similar set up to you 15 months between the dtwin boys and dd(sooooooo wish I'd got round to a 4th for dd).

Anyhoo you absolutely don't want your dc in the same class,can't stress it enough.

One of the reasons we've stuck out our large primary is the options would mean class sharing.

The friends thing you would cope with,I have several friends who live out.You just do joint play dates and parents would take yours home from school for a play date.

Well school 1, our local primary, has declined any further visits until after Christmas. 10th Jan offered. Obviously forms in for the 15th. I am now thinking maybe we should.jist do it. Surprisingly my dh is now adamant he thinks school 2 is the best option. Oh FFS. I've overthought this so much I don't know whether I'm coming or going

We chose our local village school over a better school a few miles away, purely because of the community aspect. We wanted to be part of the village community and for dc to make lots of friends. They now know most of the kids in the village, have a great social life and I have made lots of fantastic friends. The school is no way perfect but we can work with that and the social aspects outweigh the school issues. But that's our opinion. We want to be part of the village community. We don't mind everyone knowing everything about us. We can deal with any inevitable gossip. But other people I know absolutely hate all of this. They find the closeness intrusive and want to move elsewhere.

If you have other ways of being part of the community or you don't particularly want to be part of it then I would go with school 2. Otherwise I would go for school 1. Good luck!