phonics advice please... books seem to be too difficult

[PourquoiTuGachesTaVie]

Ds is 4 and in reception. He's brought his second reading book home today and I've just gone through it with him. It's a level 1 "spiral starter" book (as was the first book he brought home) which focuses on the word "my" plus a range of other words, some of which he can have a go at decoding (such as bed and doll) and but most of the words are impossible for him to decode yet (bike, paints, flower, brother, shoes).
He's getting quite frustrated that he can't read these words and I don't blame him.

Is this normal? These books were published in 1995 so I'm not sure if they're entirely suited to phonics but that doesn't appear to be the case so far.

Are there any reading scheme books I could look into getting for personal use that could better support how ds is learning to read?

Also; can anyone link to a reliable resource for a list of "tricky" words so I can start practicing these with him.

Also, which are the best workbooks to get to practice phonics? I've only looked at jolly phonics so far but I'm open to suggestions.

How are caught, should, though, English, thought, would decodable?

And school, loose, house, glove?

Would you like me to go on?

How are they not?

Have you ever seen an alphabetic code chart? What on earth are you teaching?

Go: /g/ + 'o' which is just an alternative grapheme for /oa/.

Tell me how 'you' is decodable then?
Y I will give you but Ou makes the sound ow, as in cloud, so how can you decode it please?

But how do I know that I have to use the alternative grapheme unless I have learned the way to pronounce go?
And you only learn the alternative graphemes in phase 5. High frequency words are taught much before that.

I'd like you to tell me what part of those words isn't decodable because most 5 year olds don't have a problem decoding them if they have been taught phonics

Check the chart - and the Letters and Sounds advice for teaching tricky words while you're at it.

You: /y/ + /oo/, using the 'ou' as in 'soup'.

I refute that you know a five year old who can decode 'though' or 'ought' and get it correct the first time.

Please understand, I agree with teaching phonics but we have to admit that because our language is such a mishmash it is not entirely decodable.

How does the five year old know that they need the Ou in soup?

Then you don't know how to teach phonics.

The majority of our Year 1 children could decode those easily by around February half term.

You - 2sounds /y/and /oo/ the spelling represents /oo/ in you & soup & coupon & ghoul & route & Ouse etc etc etc

Because they will have been taught all the graphemes for /oo/.

Again, what are you teaching when you say you 'agree' with phonics?

Letters and sounds.

My class are actually learning different ways to spell /oo/ this week

You seem to be stuck firmly at Phase 3 in your subject knowledge, Pipbin.

But how do they know which graphemes for oo they should use?

This thread is not about my teaching of phonics and all I am saying is that not a English words are decodable.

'ou' represents several sounds, including /ow/ as in cloud and /long oo/ as in you, soup, etc. Put together that takes /y/ /oo/.

Children shouldn't be learning to only use alternative pronunciations of graphemes in phase 5. It should be happening incidentally alongside your systematic phonics teaching. If what teachers are taking from letters and sounds is that phase 5 is year one work and can only happen after phases 2-5 have been taught, then maybe it is time we scrapped it and wrote something better. Because I don't think that's what the scheme intended.

If you are using letters and sounds the HFW are taught by introducing the tricky later phase graphee and teaching the children to blend them, right from the start of phase 2.

That is very true Feenie, but then I teach nursery.

That's not an 'all', that's quite worrying.

And you said half of words aren't decodable, which is silly.

Year 1 children are taught to try alternative graphemes, and when taught properly do so very easily. That's what phase 5 is all about.

But what about your children who are working above age related expectations?

What about the way you teach he, we, go - do you look at the phonemes at all?

You are right, Rafa - we ditched Letters and Sounds for that very same reason.

But English words are decodable pipbin

I think it might work with teachers with good subject knowledge who understand the principles behind it and can adapt it as needed, switching bits around. But I don't think that's who is using it. It seems to be a sort of default scheme when you haven't got anything else.

The alternative graphemes=phase 5=year 1 thing seems to have got firmly stuck into people's heads as well. Before L&S one representation of each of the 44+ sounds was first half of reception and the more common alternative graphemes were taught in the second half. I'm not sure why they chose such a slow pace.

I looked at Letters & Sounds but decided not to adopt it for our school for just that reason Rafa (and I find the biddy phases unnatural / counterintuitive)

And then you meet teachers who don't believe 5 year olds can use alternative graphemes at all.

What do they think is taught after the simple code?