How self directed/motivated is your 11-yr-old when it comes to studying?

[Stewedcoot]

Apologies in advance if this comes across as a bit pfb!!

Dd (11 yrs) has just received her half-term report. She's done OK overall but the two areas where she has done badly happen to be quite significant parts of significant subjects so I'm a bit worried.

(Just to give context we live abroad where level of education is fairly rigorous.)

The teacher has the absolute measure of dd (down to a tee) and has basically said that she's capable of much more, but isn't putting in enough effort.

DD is a bit of a dreamer. Currently does the minimum hwk necessary, as fast as possible! She generally is quite young for her age and not very self-motivated (except when she really, really wants something!)

Teacher has suggested that dd does one hour's homework every day (even if she has been given less hwk than this) and that she must do this off her own initative and without waiting to be told. She has also suggested that dd does some mental arithmetic exercises and games three times a week. She concluded that if both these things were done, then dd would have no problem passing the obligatory state exams which every child has to sit here, in order to pass on to secondary school.

DD is an only child so I would be very interested to know if your 11 yr old would be capable of doing one hour's study per night, without any direction or input from us or her teacher?

(This is a genuine question btw. We think the teacher is right and that dd has to study more. We are just genuinely worried as to whether she is capable of it or not and are bracing ourselves for conflict!)

Any advice/insights gratefully received!

Does reading count? Could you give her a relevant book or text and make that part of the Study hour?

I hour of concentration without a break is quite difficult if you are not used to it. It is not broken up by conversation or visual prompts, such as you get in the classroom. There is not the sense of someone working next to you, as you get in class. Some children need to fiddle and stop and start to get anything done. They don't appear to be concentrating, even if they get things done faster.

I would be tempted to try out 15 mins to start with and up it by 5 mins a day over half term. Because she knows the self motivated time is so short she might not fear it so much or resist or wriggle out. It might feel like more of a game to see what she could do. Then she might feel she is her own master.

I suppose any habit has to start somewhere, even if it is not what comes naturally to your daughter. But if that is what will be demanded of her in the long term, you may have to build up to a greater level of independent concentration.

I know none of my children would do as you have described, but certainly I know children that can. A test is often much more exciting though than a discursive homework.

not a hope in hell of my 11 year old doing that. I have enough trouble getting him to do the homework he has been set by the teacher

1 hours homework a night here, almost all is self directed. Previous week make a leaflet on forest in Australia, a poster about Victorian doctor, write a "fairy story" and algebra would be examples.

DS (nearly 11) does to his homework on his own, but he does the bare minimum he can get away with. If he was told he "had" to do an hour he would however spend 50 minutes of it winging. If we wanted him to do something like the level of work you are looking at, we would have to stand over him the whole time.

i think it's down to child personality though, my 8 year old DD would happily do all that on her own!

DS (11) gets about an hour of homework a night. He would not do it all if left to his own devices.

Self-motivated to do with homework without being reminded or prompted: my children seemed to develop this around the age or 10 or 11.

Self-motivated to do extra studying or revision, or work that doesn't have to be handed in: we have started to see the beginnings of this in DS1 who is 14. But only in subjects he enjoys.

Yes, they should be able to do this by 11 but a lot have never learnt to.

Help her by agreeing to set time(s) every day and perhaps split it up - it may be half an hour before tea and half an hour after. She sets / agrees to the times and is then obliged to keep to them. You may also agree to something good that happens at the end of that time . Make it as easy as possible for her to succeed and ignore wingeing - it is a fact of life, just like brushing her teeth.

I have been developing some mental maths sheets which have been successful with my own pupils. PM me if you want more details.

My 10yo can do 45mins productive music practice without supervision, so I don't think it's unattainable. But if the child is not used to that level of effort then you will prob need to start smaller and work up.

My 10yo can do 45mins productive music practice without supervision

My 10 year olds can just about manage 5 minutes of productive music practice without supervision.

Sorry to be getting back to this thread only now!

Thank you for all these extremely helpful replies! And I'm interested in how varied the responses are too (like dc themselves I suppose!).

Cece and Raisinboys I'm relieved to hear that it is not just my child who is lacking in self-determination and initiative at this age!

Thank you very much for the practical suggestions Swan and Honu!! I will indeed suggest breaking up the hour, encourage her to do it at a set time, try and build up that time incrementally, and try and introduce rewards on completion (without getting too involved according to the teacher's instructions). It's a difficult balance though!

Swan She is used to working for fairly concentrated periods of time at school but I think you have hit the nail on the head when you point out about her not having the sense of anyone working alongside her. She is very bad at being completely on her own. I might just have to do paper-work (as unobtrusively as poss) in the same room for a while (again without interfering too much). (Sadly, reading doesn't count because dd has no problems at all with that, in fact I have trouble persuading her to put down her current book and do her hwk!!)

Need to encourage all of this without being over-controlling or steering too much, because, as you say, the ultimate goal is for her to be able to study independently.

Honu thank you - much appreciated - I will indeed pm you over the weekend.

Lonecatkitten I think my dd might actually achieve one hour working independently if it involved doing the hwk your dc have been set - which sounds really interesting! Sadly we live in a country where the the teaching methods are very formalised and most of the subject matter (with a few exceptions) is as dry as dust!!

Redskybynight yes, dd also gives a good impression of working for 50 minutes out of the hour, when it is really only in the last 10 mins when she actually gets down to it.

Thefirstofhername I'm interested in the distinction you make between work that has been set and independent work, because to be fair to dd, she has got a lot better at doing the former. She is nowhere near achieving the latter though yet!

Dh and I were discussing this earlier today. He said that he got hit by his teachers (40 yrs ago!) when he was 11 yrs and didn't know his set work which is obviously as far from the ideal as you can get but there was certainly no question about who was in charge! I wasn't given much hwk at all at that age but when I was, I was firmly directed ie I knew exactly what to do, how to do it and told when I should do it.

Am I right in thinking that dc are expecting to be more self-determined nowadays? (Not in life in general perhaps but wrt study?) I'm not sure I would have known what to do with that "power" at that age... I'm not sure I would have used it constructively tbh.

However, I take heart from your words Honu that 11 yr-olds can do it if taught properly!

Thanks again everyone - this was really helpful.

x posts

Thanks Gregor will try to build up in stages!

Ditto here Thefirstofhername not only have we been very inconsistent wrt music practice itself, we have switched from piano, to guitar, to recorder, to violin and back again!

I'm not sure I'm a terribly good role model though tbh

I'm interested in the distinction you make between work that has been set and independent work

For my children, it's about the time-frame of the consequences.
If they don't do their homework, they will face the consequences within the next few days, when the teacher asks them why they haven't handed anything in.
If they don't do the extra studying/revision, they don't have to face the consequences for several weeks, until the results of the next test come out. Or even as far in the future as the end of Y11, when they have to sit external exams.

At the moment, only the 14 year old has the sense to see the medium- and long-term picture, although the 12 year old will revise for a test if he is directly instructed to do so.

If your ten year old is anything like mine, there would need to be a short-term reward. E.g. if she does five short sessions of extra work, you'll buy her a magazine.

Eventually, children do need to learn to study without being otherwise rewarded, but that comes with time and maturity.

At 11 both my DDs would have suggested the teacher took a long walk of a short pier.

Only they wouldn't have put it that politely.

In Y11, DD1 would have done, before that. No way!

That's an extremely good point Thefirstofhername thank you again. Will definitely factor in short-term rewards.

Elephantsneverforgive

dd1 (11 in December) only gets 1.5 hours of homework per week, not counting reading. She is very self-motivated to do what she does, but if it was an hour a night when she's not already used to it - definitely not!

I think a lot depends on what a child has got used to doing over the past year or two at school. I would be careful not to dump the new 'requirements' straight on to her in one go: an adult might get stressed by that, let alone an 11 year old. I would build up, with the thought that getting her to do more than she's doing now is an achievable goal - but keep an open mind as to how much, how often, etc.

Also, give her loads of ideas/choices so it feels more 'hers' - eg half an hour twice a day, fifteen minute chunks, or what she's been given plus some mental maths games, etc etc.

And incentives, if needed

Yes, thanks Elibean will definitely build up gradually ...think that is vital ... will also throw incentives in to the pot!

DS in final year of primary gets 30mins homework Mon-thurs. If finishes it quickly he's supposed to read a book, any book of his choosing. He will sit down & do the set homework but no he would not be self-directed beyond that.

Homework often takes the form of find 10 interesting facts about... (can use internet). There are free maths websites which would help with mental maths, maybe you could point your DD at those to make it more fun?

Thank you iseenodust! Again, glad we are not alone!

Thankfully, her teacher has recommended several websites so at least that should be a bit more interesting!